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Francisco Toreau recently wrote a middle way on abortion about the Musuko Kuyo. It's a Buddhist ritual in Japan for mourning children who were never born. Michael Lind was one of the founders of New America, is a professor of practice of politics at the LBJ School of Public Affairs and author of many interesting books. We debated how to think through the nature of populism and what would be required to return to democracies that actually live up to their promise.

Michael Lind is a writer and professor of the practice at the Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs at the University of Texas at Austin. He is the co-founder of the think tank New America and the author of The New Class War: Saving Democracy From the Managerial Elite and, most recently, Hell to Pay: How the Suppression of Wages is Destroying America.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Michael Lind discuss whether one’s stances towards free trade, taxation, and workers’ rights are still a reliable predictor of voters’ broader political identity; why Lind, though he supports many economically progressive policies, is often classed as a conservative; and whether efforts to rebuild labor power and reinvigorate national industrial policy will succeed in improving the economy for ordinary people.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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