How to Avoid Complexity and Technical Debt

Complexity and technical debt kind of go hand in hand, right? You know, they're different sides of the same coin. And so often when you talk about how do you avoid complexity, what I go back and tell people is, well, how do you avoiding technical debt? A lot of the same solutions work in both of those cases. It's- Exactly. Or at least not that kind of complex, right? There might be complexity here. That's the same type of complexity, right? How do you not make it more complex by how you're trying to solve it?