Introduction

Design Ops Island Discs is a weekly podcast from Zero Height that navigates the calm waters of design ops with your host, Luke Murphy. For this week's episode I'm joined by Dan Mal, Design System extraordinaire author, founder and CEO of both Super Friendly and Arcade and All-Round Good Egg. Today we talk to Dan about collaboration between designers and engineers on design systems as well as how you can be a better partner to the engineers you work with. We cover how agile is not as scary as it's made out to be the concept of hot potato in between design and development and why we need a bit of an attitude shift within the realm of product design at the moment.