Intro

In Episode 424 of Hidden Forces, Demetri Kofinas speaks with Kamran Bokhari, Senior Director at the New Lines Institute for Strategy & Policy, who has served in the U.S. State Department and as a Senior Consultant with the World Bank.

Bokhari first appeared on the podcast shortly after the October 7th attacks to discuss the violence ignited by Hamas, the nature and scope of Iranian involvement, and how various regional actors exploited the growing disorder to their advantage, as the Biden administration struggled to stabilize a region on the brink of another major war.

In subsequent appearances, Bokhari has provided the Hidden Forces audience with critical context for understanding U.S.-Israeli and Iranian strategic aims and limitations, the interests and constraints of other regional states (including Saudi Arabia and Turkey), how the events in the Middle East are perceived in Beijing and Moscow, and how the situation may evolve from here.

The broader conflict with Iran, which has consistently framed these discussions, has now directly involved the United States following its recent deployment of fourteen 30,000-pound bombs targeting three Iranian nuclear sites: the Fordow Uranium Enrichment Plant, the nuclear facility in Natanz, and the Isfahan Nuclear Technology Center. What happens next—and whether the White House's actions will ultimately prove beneficial to America's long-term strategic objectives—forms the central focus of this two-hour conversation.

In the first hour, Bokhari and Kofinas update listeners on recent developments, assessing the initial successes and failures of U.S. and Israeli strategic planners, the Iranian response, immediate risks to the United States and its allies, and how this war is likely to reshape the economic and security order of the Middle East over the next five years.

In the second hour, Demetri and Kamran widen their aperture to examine how the conflict will affect the economic and military imperatives of the United States and China, along with their respective alliances and trading networks. They also discuss the potential economic repercussions and secondary impacts resulting from America's attack on Iran. The episode concludes with an examination of best- and worst-case scenarios, ranging from a new investment supercycle in the Middle East to the deployment of battlefield nuclear weapons and heightened risks of international terrorism in the United States and Europe.

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Producer & Host: Demetri Kofinas Editor & Engineer: Stylianos Nicolaou

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Episode Recorded on 06/23/2025