In this episode, I talked with Ryan Hawk about one of the biggest wake-up calls of my career: if you don’t like sales, you’re in trouble.

I used to think I could just be the visionary. The builder. The guy behind the scenes making things happen.

But that only works in theory. In reality, every meaningful result in life requires sales, whether it’s getting someone to join your team, invest in your business, or just believe in the idea.

Early on, I hated rejection, avoided uncomfortable conversations, and thought I could just “build” without ever having to sell. But the truth is, sales is everything in business, in leadership, and life.