What was it like to work inside Elon Musk's DOGE? The cost-cutting initiative promised transparency, but most of its actions have been shrouded in secrecy.

For months, there were reports of software engineers and Trump loyalists entering agencies and accessing sensitive data. DOGE also helped the Trump administration lay off thousands of government workers. NPR reporters have been trying for months to get anyone from DOGE to talk on the record. Now, Sahil Lavingia, a former DOGE staffer assigned to the Department of Veteran Affairs, is speaking.

Today, what drew Sahil to DOGE and what he learned about the inner workings, in a way we've never heard before.

For more on DOGE and the federal workforce:
- The last time we shrank the federal workforce
- Can... we still trust the monthly jobs report?
- Can the Federal Reserve stay independent?

This episode was hosted by Kenny Malone and Bobby Allyn. It was produced by Sam Yellowhorse Kesler and Emma Peaslee. It was edited by Jess Jiang and fact-checked by Sierra Juarez. It was engineered by Neal Rauch. Alex Goldmark is Planet Money's executive producer.

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