Questioning the Marshmallow Test and Alternatives

As a special addition to this week's episode, you can see Katy's full sit-down interview with Angela Duckworth, where they also explore the relationship between self-control and grit.

• Watch or listen to their conversation on YouTube or Spotify.

When your emotions flare or temptation calls, what does it take to hold back? Whether it’s resisting the urge to lash out or the pull of short-term pleasure in favor of long-term goals, self-control can be one of the hardest—and most important—skills we ever learn.

In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we explore the power and limits of self-control. You'll hear how legendary baseball player Jackie Robinson changed the course of history not just with his athletic talent, but through extraordinary composure in the face of hatred. Dr. Yohuru Williams is a professor of history and the founding director of the Racial Justice Initiative at the University of St. Thomas. He is also the co-author of Call Him Jack: The Story of Jackie Robinson, Black Freedom Fighter. He explains how Jackie Robinson's restraint and strategic discipline helped dismantle racial barriers in Major League Baseball—and why his quiet strength was anything but passive.

Then, Katy sits down with psychologist and Grit author Dr. Angela Duckworth, a leading expert on self-control. She breaks down what science tells us about managing impulses, why willpower by itself falls short, and how simple environmental tweaks and practical strategies can help anyone delay gratification and make smarter choices.

Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the show, visit schwab.com/Choiceology.

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The books How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be, Call Him Jack: The Story of Jackie Robinson, Black Freedom Fighter, and Grit are not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the books and makes no representations about its content.

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