Outro

Joseph speaks to Michael Bobbitt, a former FBI official who worked directly on Operation Trojan Shield. In this operation the FBI secretly ran its own encrypted phone company for organized crime, backdoored the phone, and collected tens of millions of messages. Michael and Joseph discuss how Michael handled intelligence sourced from the phones, how to navigate an operation that complex, and its fallout.

YouTube Version: https://youtu.be/bLeueG5V4QY

• Dark Wire: The Incredible True Story of the Largest Sting Operation Ever

• Podcast: Signal's President Meredith Whittaker on Backdoors and AI

Subscribe at 404media.co for bonus content.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices