What if the biggest threat to your freedom isn’t a bad decision - but a scoreboard you never agreed to? Philosopher C. Thi Nguyen joins Bankless to unpack how modern life quietly turns values into points: likes, GPAs, net worth, rankings, and performance metrics that feel objective - but often flatten what matters most. We explore what games really are, why “gamified” platforms like social media can be uniquely corrosive, and how “value capture” pulls you from meaning into measurable proxies. Then we get practical: playfulness, reflective control, and “value federalism” as ways to use metrics without letting them use you.

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TIMESTAMPS

0:00 Intro
0:58 “Is this the game you really want to be playing?”
5:45 What counts as a game (Bernard Suits’ definition)
11:38 Bankless “serious games” and the cheating test
16:29 Social media as “game-ish,” not truly a game
21:28 The magic circle and why points get dangerous
24:08 Rotten Tomatoes vs. forming your own taste
33:27 Portability: why metrics flatten nuance
38:15 Value capture: when your values get outsourced
45:52 Plato’s cave: “metrics are the new shadows”
54:12 The outsourcing dilemma: we can’t know everything
1:01:47 Playfulness as an antidote to metric hypnosis
1:12:55 Switching rule-sets: D&D, indie games, and redesigning incentives
1:16:22 Reflective control: using metrics without being used
1:20:21 Two endings: cynicism, hope, and the tradeoff of scale
1:23:38 Value federalism + why "Civilization" makes Thi miserable

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RESOURCES

C. Thi Nguyen
https://x.com/add_hawk

C. Thi Nguyen’s “The Score” Book
https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/457380/the-score-by-nguyen-c-thi/9780241653975

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