in Mother Nature Arc is brought to you by Kipa the world's most advanced matchmaking solution now many of you will know that I'm normally extremely suspicious of dating apps like Tinder and Bumble which tend to produce repeat customers who must endure endless miserable hookups and short-term relationships without ever finding a spouse well Kipa is a completely different kind of service its algorithm prioritizes immediate attraction but also crucially long-term compatibility because forever is the goal everyone in the Kipa matchmaking pool is there because they want to find a spouse using psychometric tests like big five IQ and masculine feminine polarity Kipa can accurately predict who you're going to have the strongest chemistry with the platform only gives you a match if you are an exact fit psychometrically and if the match offers everything that you've told Kipa you're looking for in a partner it won't waste your time with only good enough matches like other dating apps and matchmaking services well so find your Kipa at Kipa.ai that's K-E-E-P-E-R.ai I'm all done in service of the pursuit of freedom but I yes but I suppose that the um a point that you make very well in the book is that this is freedom very very much mediated by class and the people who are winning from this regime are overwhelmingly the rich which might include some rich women so that like it isn't it isn't clearly the case that this is entirely not in women's interest it's just not in the interest of the majority of women could you explain a little bit about the class distinctions that you

see. Yeah so I mean I in this sense I'm arguably a class trader in the sense that I belong very much you know without indisputably to the laptop class you know I don't I don't work in the physical world for a living I sit I sit at my laptop and I type stuff so so I'm very much I'm a net beneficiary of the feminism of freedom you know the cyborg feminism of freedom now as it is as it now is um but um my my read on this is that it's possible it's it's more at least it's much more plausible to argue that women can and must do our best to transcend our physiology and that to be a person is to flatten in every possible way the accidents the accidents or you know give the givens of our physiology this is actually this is I wish I could remember the exact quote but this the the transhumanist and trans activist Martin Rothblatt expresses this very very succinctly in from transgender to transhuman which is a sort of manifesto for everything which I'm adamantly not keen on and Rothblatt Rothblatt puts it puts it very much in those terms that the the march of progress means liberating ourselves from every every imaginable given of our of our of our every every imaginable accident of our birth you know whether that's our economic givens or our physiological givens or our ethnicity or or our sex and as far as Rothblatt is concerned this is that that's what progress means and and therefore and it follows from this that we can and should use technology to emancipate ourselves first from the givens of our sex and then biological extension of that from the givens of our human embodiment full stop and you know should we wish to upload ourselves to the cloud then the book argues that that should entirely be our prerogative so that's so that's the sort of that's that's the optimistic case for for the kind of transhumanist understanding of what emancipation is my view is that it's all very well to say that if you're a multi-millionaire farmer entrepreneur but it's another thing altogether if you're a farm worker in Maharashtra in India where it's simply not plausible to emancipate emancipate yourself from the givens of your body or at least it means something very different to emancipate yourself from the givens of your body you know and