I think it's important here to distinguish between ways of disagreeing that are not about facts. And there's a lot of things that we have disagreements about that really are not about the facts. I might pull out facts that show I'm right and you might pull facts to show you wrong, but really fundamentally, we just disagree about what's good or maybe I just want my team to get resources. We treat those normative claims as if they were empirical claims and they're completely different types of things.

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