Restructuring for Relief: Delegation and Modernization in Ministry

Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. Today we’re joined by Bob Riedy, Senior Pastor of Church of the Open Door in Pennsylvania. After leading one of the fastest-growing churches in the country, Bob found himself facing a personal and professional breakdown. In this deeply transparent episode, he shares his journey through burnout, anxiety, and loss—and how a season of pain became a catalyst for healing, reflection, and renewed leadership.

Feeling overwhelmed by ministry demands? Struggling with unprocessed grief, exhaustion, or the weight of expectations? Listen in as Bob offers honest insights on burnout recovery, emotional health, and the kind of leadership that builds both soul and church.

• Deal with loss to move ahead. // Years of accumulated grief—personal loss, staff transitions, and post-COVID declines—had taken a quiet but devastating toll. Like many pastors, Bob had failed to grieve deeply. He admits, “Ministry is a series of ungrieved losses,” and shares how shame—over not being able to “hold it all together”—compounded the pressure he felt to appear strong and capable.
• Combat shame with grace. // The enemy uses shame to isolate and weaken pastors who feel they should always have the answers. Returning to Scripture reminds us that even biblical heroes experienced loss and hardship. God works through those seasons in new and powerful ways.
• Let the Truth transform you. // Pastors can fall into the trap of preaching truth without letting that truth transform their own hearts. Bob realized he had been carrying more weight than Jesus was asking him to. True rest came when he began allowing the gospel to minister to his soul, not just his sermons.
• Getting help and doing the work. // Bob’s road to recovery began with a doctor’s visit, counseling, and time away from the pulpit. He leaned into scripture, read books on mental health and burnout, and began integrating new rhythms into his life. Practices like contemplative prayer, Sabbath rest, and cultivating deeper friendships helped him reestablish emotional and spiritual health.
• Set boundaries for rest and health. // Create clear limits on your time and energy. Leaders must learn to fully engage in ministry and fully disengage to rest. For Bob, this meant prioritizing his family and carving out time to be with God without guilt.
• Lean on trusted relationships. // Burnout taught Bob the value of authentic friendships. For years, he was surrounded by people who knew “Pastor Bob” but few who really knew him. Through intentional efforts, he built deeper relationships where he could be vulnerable and receive care—not just give it.
• Share the burden. // Appoint someone to step into your leadership role and divide responsibilities among the team to give yourself time to step back and rest. This lightens the load and creates a healthier rhythm for the entire staff. Leadership doesn’t have to mean carrying everything alone.
• Burn Out and Life Lessons. // Today, Church of the Open Door is stronger than ever. Attendance is rebounding, spiritual growth is flourishing, and Bob is leading from a place of authenticity and freedom. His honesty has invited others into healing as well, and he’s become an advocate for soul care among pastors. Through his downloadable resource, “Burn Out and Life Lessons Talk“, Bob outlines the journey he walked through, the disciplines that helped him heal, and practical steps pastors can take to guard their emotional and spiritual health.

Learn more about Church of the Open Door by visiting www.codyork.org.

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Episode Transcript

Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary podcast. Thanks so much for tuning in. Today, we’ve got something really unique on the podcast. We don’t typically do. We’re looping back around to get a bit of an update on the story, particularly the personal story of Bob Riedy. He is the senior pastor of a fantastic church, Church of the Open Door, that you should be following. Bob was on in 2019 and has come back now a few years later for a bit of an an update on where things are at. At that point, the the episode he was on was called “From Plateaued for 30 years to One of the Fastest Growing Churches in the Country. Bob, so glad that you are here. Thanks for being on the show today.

Bob Riedy — Yes. Thank you, Rich. So good to be with you.

Rich Birch — Yeah, I appreciate you being on today and taking time and and spending some time with us again to kind of update us on you and where things are at. Why don’t you give us some context before we dive in? Kind of tell us about the church. Tell us about your role, that sort of thing.

Bob Riedy — Yes. Church of the Open Door is a church that was established in 1951 with a really unique story of of a church coming out of a mainline denomination and where a whole bunch of people came to know Christ. And they established the church, and the church grew very rapidly for probably the first 25, 30 years, then to plateaued, as you mentioned. And then ah somewhere around 2007 or ’08, the church began to grow again very rapidly.

Bob Riedy — I’m the senior pastor of the church. I’ve been here since 2006, and I’ve been in ministry about 43 years. And love ministry and have really loved my time here at Church of the Open Door. It’s it’s a great church. It’s a multi-site church and with a staff of about 45 people that really continues to reach people and see them experience life change in Jesus.

Rich Birch — Yeah. Well last time we spoke your church was named one of the fastest growing churches in the country, like we talked about. And a lot has happened since then. Bring us up to speed, tell us to give us the story. What happened since then.

Bob Riedy — Yes. So we, we ah you know, as you said, we were named one of the top 100 fastest growing churches in America. And we were really doing well, I think.

Bob Riedy — And ah and then somewhere around 2000, the end of 2019, we had a difficult transition with ah some one person, a couple people actually on our staff. Of course, the pandemic hit in 2020, and that was you know a difficult thing for our church, especially guys as a ah multisite, large church, and know how to handle that. The politics, were certainly a part of of of all of that as well. And so we got through those challenges.

Bob Riedy — And then ah in yeah mid 2021, just hit a wall personally and had to take some time off and, you know, get to a better place.

Rich Birch — So mid 2021, what kind of led you to that? You described the fact that you hit a wall. Talk us through what led you to the place where like, oh, something is not up. This is more than just tired. This is more than like, oh, I need to have a nap this afternoon.

Bob Riedy — Yeah.

Rich Birch — You know, there’s it was obviously more profound than that. Tell tell us about that.

Bob Riedy — Yes. So on Sunday, June the 27th, 2021, I woke up like I had for the last, you know, 40 years and showered, shaved, had breakfast and could not come in and do my job that day. And I you know went back to bed and my, you know, I certainly alarmed my wife. And I just said, I’m not feeling well today.

Bob Riedy — And fortunately at that time, we were still taping our services ahead of time and we hadn’t been live streaming yet. And so um you know I text my my team and said, you know you guys just need to play the tape today. But the truth of the matter is, is that I was just totally exhausted.

Bob Riedy — And, you know, that later on that day, my children who all attend my church, you know, they were texting mom, what’s going on with dad and stuff. They all showed up at our apartment that afternoon. And, you know, they they they saw that, you know, their father was, you know, just not himself, just just totally, really totally exhausted.

Bob Riedy — The first thing I did was call my doctor. He responded right away and put me on medicine and and whatnot. And you know I began to go to counseling, and I’m sure we’ll talk about that later on. But at that time, I really didn’t know what happened to me, Rich.

Rich Birch — Right, right.

Bob Riedy — I knew that I was tired. I knew that I was wrestling with profound anxiety, which was just kind of overwhelming me. And so I realized I just I couldn’t keep going on. So I ended up taking the summer off. And, you know, you know, by God’s grace, picked up again in the fall, ah but in in a totally different way. So it was yes, it was scary.

Rich Birch — Yeah.

Bob Riedy — It was it was traumatic. You know, I mean, I was the yeah I was the Energizer Bunny. You know, I I could work I could work, you know, 12 hours a day and, you know, work weeks at a time. At that time, I was preaching, you know, six, seven times in a row…

Rich Birch — Wow.

Bob Riedy — …which now that I realize was not healthy, you know.

Rich Birch — Right. Right.

Bob Riedy — But I think and we had had we had just experienced some loss on our staff, some difficulties and turnovers. I had had some personal disappointments as well. We had bought ah some property with our son and we were going to build with him. And we just kept running into these, um you know, walls. And and then we were I was, you know working at the church. And at the same time, ah you know working on these properties and stuff. And so there was um it was like a perfect storm…

Rich Birch — Right.

Bob Riedy — …of of you know exhaustion that that but really brought you know brought me to to a wall. And in the end, it really revealed that there were some faulty, there was some faulty thinking, there were some faulty ways that I was living and doing ministry that I think, you know, really caught up to me. And it it took me going to counseling and things to figure some of those things out.

Rich Birch — Okay. I want to put a bookmark in that…

Bob Riedy — Okay.

Rich Birch — …and come back to your understanding of kind of the faulty ways that you’ve kind of undone, but let’s just stay a little bit longer in the tension part. You’re a smart leader leading a prevailing ministry. And what you’re describing is I think what a lot of us find ourselves into, like there’s lots of opportunity. You’re, you know, you’re doing some investment stuff. You’re there’s lots going on.

Rich Birch — I had a friend of mine has said, you know, leading a ministry over an extended period of time is a series of unmitigated losses. It’s like things just fall apart in life and you just kind of, they just, they just add up and you just kind of move on. But can you kind of pull apart a little bit from the the side of the loss, the side of the pressure, kind of what what led to the the kind of profound anxiety? Help us understand that.

Rich Birch — I’m thinking from the perspective of people that are listening in that are saying, hey, like, ah we don’t want to get to the place where we’re waking up on a Sunday and we can’t get in. But what would be some of those signs ah that that you now see that maybe you didn’t quite see so clearly at that point?

Bob Riedy — Yes. I I really do think that loss and especially not properly processing and grieving loss was a big part of what was behind all of this.

Rich Birch — Right.

Bob Riedy — In 2018, I lost my brother, um my younger brother, who was, you know, really my wingman in so many ways. That was a loss that, you know, I think in some ways I’m still wrestling with. We, during the pandemic, we lost, you know you know, pick a number…

Rich Birch — Right.

Bob Riedy — …you know, a lot of loss as far as, um ah you know, attendance and stuff. At first, we were off for, you know, we were off for about four months. But then when we came back, ah you know, it was people began to trickle in. And it was clear to me that we lost hundreds of people, you know, as well from our church that during that time.

Bob Riedy — That was probably a profound thing for me. We lost some key staff members members as well, you know, during that time. I lost some friends because of the politics and some of the difficulty of that. And so I think loss was ah was a big part of that. My counselors really helped me a lot with that not properly grieving loss.

Bob Riedy — You know, Terry Wardle is one who said that, ah you know, ministry is a series of ungrieved losses. And and and if we and and I found that I I really wasn’t doing that good. I was shaking it off and just moving forward, shaking it off and moving forward and not really grieving it and and and bringing God into it and surrendering it to him.

Bob Riedy — And, and I think part of, part of what happened with that as well was I was, I was concerned about what people thought, you know, with we were, you know, this powerhouse of a church growing like crazy. And all of a sudden, you know, like every other church we were, we were struggling.

Bob Riedy — And, you know, I remember the day that, you know, I burned out that afternoon. My children all came to our apartment. My wife and I were living downtown. And ah my daughter reminded me of this the other day. And she said, Dad, do you know what you said to me that day? And I said, no. She said, Dad, you said to me, “What are people going to think of me that this happened to me?” And I you know, that was a that was a loss that I wasn’t, you know, I wasn’t able to really properly wrap my head around.

Rich Birch — right

Bob Riedy — And I was more concerned about how this was going to look, you know, with me as, you know, a Christian leader in our community. And and then I think one of the places that the anxiety came from as well was shame. Like one of the things the enemy, I think, came after me with was like, you’ve been telling people here in York how to live for the, you know, the last 15 years, and you let this happen to you.

Rich Birch — Wow.

Bob Riedy — And wow, I wrestled with that as well. And I so I think, you know, that that loss and, you know, worrying what people were concerned about or what they were thinking of me. And then the shame of wrestling through that…

Rich Birch — Right.

Bob Riedy — …as a senior pastor, you know, whose church had been top 100 churches.

Rich Birch — Right.

Bob Riedy — You know, I mean, I I taught church leadership and and biblical preaching at Lancaster Bible College. And, and this happened to me. And, and so I really wrestled with, you know, just the fallout of all that.

Rich Birch — Well, there’s a ton there.

Bob Riedy — Yes.

Rich Birch — I have I wrote like half a page of notes of like, oh, there’s so much there I’d love to unpack. Let’s start with the grieving piece.

Bob Riedy — Yes.

Rich Birch — So proper grieving of loss. I think anybody that’s listening in, I mentioned this already, like we don’t have to come up with a list of, it’s very easy for us to come up with a list of things that we have lost in ministry.

Bob Riedy — Yes.

Rich Birch — It’s like we’re consistently, that’s like a part of it. It’s what what did you learn about proper grieving? What does proper grieving look like for you now? How how have you found a better path forward on that front?

Bob Riedy — That’s a great question. You know, I think for me, I had to go back to the word of God and the example of so many people in scripture who experienced loss. You know, Joseph, Moses, Job, Jesus, Paul. I mean, it’s all throughout. David, it’s all throughout the Word of God. And, you know, I had one of the things I had to do is go back to just the the understanding that, ah you know, in the midst of loss, God is doing things in my life that he wouldn’t wasn’t doing when everything was amazing, you know? And so I realized that ah that that this was you know a big work of God.

Bob Riedy — I also began to, you know, study some of the people in in Christian you know ministry, specifically D.L. Moody, you know who lost so much in the Chicago fire. Everything was destroyed. And yet you know it was through that that Moody Bible Institute and some of these amazing things, you know, happened. And just began to think about, you know, Martin Luther and John Wesley. And and then just, you know, present day people who have been honest about their issues. Louis Giglio, Craig Groeschel, Jenny Allen. I mean, these people, you know, really, really ministered to me.

Bob Riedy — And I think another thing for me, another piece was was being somebody who really experiences and sits in the love of God.

Rich Birch — That’s good.

Bob Riedy — You know, Rich, I have preached the word, I’ve preached the word of God for 40 years and I’ve talked about God’s love over and over again. But honestly, there were parts of that, some big parts of that, that I really never applied, you know, to my own life. And, you know, like, and I I remember Tim Keller saying, nothing changes us, you know, like the a deep understanding of the love of God.

Bob Riedy — I think as well, just reading, widely from people who also had experienced burnout and loss.

Rich Birch — Right.

Bob Riedy — You know, a young woman by the name of Bethany Dearborn Hiser wrote a beautiful little book called “From Burned Out to Beloved”. And, ah you know, she has a great line there: “Behold the one beholding you and smiling.” And honestly, I I didn’t ever see God smiling at me. Isn’t that crazy?

Rich Birch — Wow.

Bob Riedy — And I’m not a legalist.

Rich Birch — Right.

Bob Riedy — You know, I mean, I’m not a legalist, but I I really never, I think, really grappled with the gaze of God. The love… You know, the Bible says that Jesus saw that young man that time. He looked at him and he loved him. And so these were all things that I had to learn to process to help me understand that even in the midst of loss, I have a God who loves me profoundly and that is and that he’s doing things, that he’s sovereign, he’s over the loss. And just like he’s done in so many other lives, he’s working in my life as well. Those were powerful things, I think, that have helped me deal with loss.

Rich Birch — That’s beautiful. That’s beautiful. One of the things you mentioned resonated with another conversation I had. A friend of mine, mentor, someone who I’ve looked up to, super influential in my life, they had stepped out, retired from ministry, came to the end. And we were out for, you know, coffee maybe a year later. And I asked them, I said, hey, what what’s been your biggest surprise now that you’re out of the kind of weekly rhythm of all of this? And they said, without hesitation, looked at me and said, you know what? I didn’t realize the pressure I was feeling to speak on behalf of Jesus every week,

Bob Riedy — Wow.

Rich Birch — That the that the weight that that had on me, I didn’t realize. And you talked about, you know, this idea that a part of you you were wrestling with, you know, Hey, here you were telling people how to live. I think it’s the language you used. Talk about that pressure. I think particularly for folks that are living, listening in one of the things I’ve tried to do as an executive pastor, and I’ve tried to coach other people towards is, Hey, a part of what we’ve got to do is create space in the lives of our lead pastors and communicators so that they can properly carry that weight because it’s unique. It’s, it’s it’s very different than the kind of pressure I see many of us under. Talk about what that weight was like. How you know when you what what impact do you think negatively was having on that? And then we can pivot to whats what are some changes you’ve made.

Bob Riedy — Yeah.

Rich Birch — But let’s talk about that that weight particularly.

Bob Riedy — Yes. I think that for myself, I was I was carrying I was carrying weight that Jesus didn’t want me to carry.

Rich Birch — Right.

Bob Riedy — You know, one of the verses of scripture that really ministered, has ministered to me is Matthew 11:28-30, where Jesus says, come to me, all of you who are weary and weighed down by cares, and I’ll give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am, you know, gentle and humble in heart and you’ll find rest for your souls.

Rich Birch — Beautiful.

Bob Riedy — So, you know, like like I said, I was preaching six to eight times in a row. I shouldn’t have been doing that.

Rich Birch — Right.

Bob Riedy — Especially when I was trying to, you know… So I think I was so, it was, it was for some reason, I thought I had to be the person who was speaking. I had to lead clearly during this time. And I think I was I was taking too much of that on myself. And and it is a weight. And I should have been sharing that weight.

Rich Birch — Right.

Bob Riedy — To me that was to me, that was the big lesson for me. And, you know, you’ll see when we talk a little bit later here about what’s what’s changed. But you know I put it all on my shoulders. And and it’s crazy because I had a staff who was more than willing to help me. And…

Rich Birch — Right. Right.

Bob Riedy — But when it came to speaking, you know, for God, and I I put that on myself.

Rich Birch — Right.

Bob Riedy — And that’s that was, it was unnatural. And what what what happened was, and I think this happens a lot with pastors who preach, you know, as much as I did. It was to the place where I was preaching truth. So I’m I’m I’m committed to expository preaching. So I was preaching truth. but But that’s about it. I wasn’t I wasn’t taking time to really let that truth, ah you know, go deep into my heart where I could preach from the overflow…

Rich Birch — Wow.

Bob Riedy — …of what God was doing in my soul, you know.

Rich Birch — Wow.

Bob Riedy — And I have to admit that.

Rich Birch — Wow.

Bob Riedy — I I I wasn’t a heretic.

Rich Birch — Right.

Bob Riedy — I was always preaching truth.

Rich Birch — Right.

Bob Riedy — And I think that’s a trap that pastors can get into. Okay, I preach truth today. I gave people truth. But if it’s not truth that ah we have really lived and um and that’s really made a difference in our lives, it’s not going to sustain us. I think that’s the big thing that I learned.

Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s, that’s wow. That’s profound. That idea of you were carrying more weight than Jesus was probably asking you to carry. And you weren’t sharing that. It’s like the double whammy of like, oh my goodness.

Bob Riedy — Yes.

Rich Birch — Well, let’s let’s talk a little bit about what has changed. What are some of those new rhythms look like? Yeah. When you said, you know, six, seven, eight, wow, that is a lot. But what, what are some of those kind of new rhythms in life and ministry that have been helpful in this shift?

Bob Riedy — Yes. So, you know, when I burned out, I went on medicine, Lexapro. And, you know, my joke has been, Jesus loved me. This I know, for he gave me Lexapro. Because it…

Rich Birch — Wow.

Bob Riedy — Yeah, it really helped me.

Rich Birch — Yes.

Bob Riedy — It simmered it simmered me down, you know.

Rich Birch — Yeah.

Bob Riedy — I went to counseling. You know, I was like Carrie Nieuwhof, who said, I send people to counseling.

Rich Birch — Right.

Bob Riedy — And I was the same way until I needed it. I’d never been to counseling in my life. I found out that after knowing Jesus and marrying Karen, going to counseling was the best thing that that I could do. And I’ve had…

Rich Birch — Just before, how did you find your counselor? How did you talk about those? Because I think there’s a lot of people in the exact boat you’re in there where like, I’m not even sure where to start. I’m not, I know our church has a list of people I’ve met with and think they’re great counselors. But do I really want to go talk to those people? How did you find that person? What what does that look like?

Bob Riedy — That’s that’s a great question. I mean, here, thankfully, in central Pennsylvania we have and we have a lot of great Christian counselors. And so I knew of a counseling agency in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, which is about 45 minutes from where I live. And I knew the guy who who runs it because he was a fellow adjunct professor at Lancaster Bible College. And so I didn’t want to go to counseling in my own city.

Rich Birch — Yep.

Bob Riedy — You know, I didn’t want to show up in an office where, you know, I know somebody and whatnot. I really needed privacy, you know.

Rich Birch — That’s good.

Bob Riedy — And and so I drove to an amazing place in in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, New Life Counseling. And my first counselor was a young woman whose father was a pastor. And she got me. She got exactly what I was going through. And then she then she went off and got married and moved away. And so I II got another counselor. He is an amazing, insightful man. And so he and so he kind of picked up where she left off and, you know, really, really has helped me. So that’s where I started with a place that I you know, that I knew. And those those were really my two first steps.

Rich Birch — Right.

Bob Riedy — And then I I just began I began to read about what happened to me. The first book I read was Craig Groeschel’s book, “Winning the War in Your Mind”. I knew that there was something going and on in my mind that was causing this anxiety, you know? And, I took the summer off summer of 2021 took off completely. And you know, I probably read his book three times that summer.

Rich Birch — Wow.

Bob Riedy — And I read other books that really helped me. Bethany Hiser’s book, J.P. Moreland’s book, “Finding Quiet”. These are all books that deal with you know you know what’s going on when you’re wrestling you know with anxiety. And so then I just began to realize that I had a to I had to change a lot of things. I had to change the way I walked with God. Honestly, Rich, I always had my devotions.

Rich Birch — Right.

Bob Riedy — I have read through the Bible for the last 35 years. I usually have, ah you know, I’ve really been helped by “Emotionally Healthy Spiritualit”y by Pete Scazzaro.

Rich Birch — Yep.

Bob Riedy — And so I I was doing all of those things. But honestly, I have to say that, you know, I would spend that 15 or 20 minutes or so in the morning.

Rich Birch — Yep.

Bob Riedy — And then I was off to the races, man.

Rich Birch — Right.

Bob Riedy — And, uh, and it, I, and I wasn’t reconnecting with God throughout the day. And so that’s changed, you know. You know, I really do. I practice silence, stillness, gratitude, reading scripture slowly, contemplative prayer, I’ve memorized scripture. I’ve put one of the things that Craig Groeschel talks about is his declarations. I’ve I’ve put those together. And so it really began, I think, with my walk with God. That had to change. It had to be more profound in my life.

Bob Riedy — I think secondly, I mean, that’s probably third or fourth…

Rich Birch — Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that’s good.

Bob Riedy — …but you know after that, I had to learn to put limits on my time and energy. I had no limits, Rich.

Rich Birch — Right.

Bob Riedy — I had I had no limits on my time. I was always on.

Rich Birch — Right.

Bob Riedy — I never really disengaged. You know, I didn’t realize what Henry Cloud says, that the most productive leaders engage fully, and then disengage fully.

Rich Birch — Right.

Bob Riedy — I wasn’t really practicing that. And of course, the pandemic was a perfect storm for that.

Rich Birch — Yeah.

Bob Riedy — You know, everything was changing so quickly. You just had to be on all the time.

Rich Birch — Right.

Rich Birch — And everything felt super consequential, right?

Bob Riedy — Oh yeah. Yeah.

Rich Birch — It was like every decision, every like what we do this weekend is going to define the future of our ministry. All of that. Yeah.

Bob Riedy — Yes. And then, of course, you know, you got the the the nasty letters from people…

Rich Birch — Yes. Yeah. Right.

…who thought you were capitulating to the governor and, you know, all that.

Rich Birch — Yeah. It’s a no win. Yeah. This it was a perfect no win scenario.

Bob Riedy — Yeah.

Rich Birch — It doesn’t matter what we did. People on both sides are not happy. For sure.

Bob Riedy — And especially with somebody like myself who, you know, was it was it was always important to me what people thought. I mean, honestly, deep in my soul, you know, that that was devastating to me. And so…

Rich Birch — So how how did you go from the always on? I’m getting a picture of you, Bob, like, and I wish it wasn’t a mirror, but, you know, ready to go, you know, making stuff happen. Always, you know, kind of jump into the next thing. I get that. How did you go from that to, okay, now I’m measured, I’m taking time to be contemplative, I’m practicing gratitude. That obviously had trickled down in how you organized your day, how you organized your week, how you organized your team, the people around you. I would imagine that would have seismic impact.

Bob Riedy — Huge.

Rich Birch — What what did some of those impacts look like?

Bob Riedy — Yeah. I think the reason why I did it is because of the trauma of burning out.

Rich Birch — Right.

Bob Riedy — That was traumatic for me…

Rich Birch — Right.

Bob Riedy — …and the the exhaustion, you know, and and I knew I had to change. You know, I I just knew I had to change. And and so the result of that is, you know, I mean, I’ve taught, I, and I’ve talked very, very freely to our church, to my staff, you know, about all of this. And and so I think that, you know, to answer your original question, just the trauma of that and me saying to myself, I don’t want to ever go back there again.

Rich Birch — Right, right.

Bob Riedy — You know, I can’t go back there again. And so, yeah. I think another thing for me was just the importance of good sleep.

Rich Birch — That’s good.

Bob Riedy — Taking time for things that fill me. I never practiced Sabbath, Rich. I always had a day off. And so now I practice Sabbath. Every Saturday is my Sabbath. And I’m religious about that. And I love that time of just, you know, I exercise, walk, read, spend time with my wife. I don’t, I don’t, I try not to do work after five o’clock. I mean, in the past I was on my computer till 9, 10 o’clock at night.

Rich Birch — Right, right.

Bob Riedy — You know, um another thing for me was deepening my friendships So here I was, a pastor of you know, 2,500 people. I know so many people, scads of people would say, oh, yeah, I’m ah I’m a friend with Pastor Bob. But, you know, the problem is, is that there weren’t a lot of people who really I allowed to really see me, you know. And so that has, you know, that has changed.

Bob Riedy — And, you know, my counselor said that to me, my second counselor, Josh, he can be salty at times, but he’s he’s such a godly man. And he said to me, he said, you know, Bob, I meet with a lot of pastors just like you. And the problem with pastors is that you guys all have crap just like everybody else does, but you have nowhere to go with it.

Rich Birch — Right, right.

Bob Riedy — And so you’re all alone. And, and the enemy then just creams you, you know, with shame. And so I I learned that shame is lifted when you are honest with somebody about your issues. And, you know, I joke with my counselor. I said, you know, i pay you $120 an hour to be my best friend. But that relationship and then other relationships that I’ve but i’ve grown and worked on, ah that that’s just been golden, you know, for me.

Rich Birch — Yeah. Yeah, it’s interesting. Isn’t that interesting? Like I, you know, this is one of those, it’s like, it’s like what old guys say, but the older I get, the the more I realize the like friends that I have in my life that are really are friends. And there, I once heard a definition of: a friend isn’t someone that would call you and ask you for help. It’s someone that you would call and ask for for help. It’s like somebody that you would call and be like, and know that they would reciprocate without like, you can cash that in kind of thing.

Bob Riedy — Yeah. Right.

Rich Birch — And I remember years ago, I had a friend or a person was saying to me, like, how many people in your life are like that? And was like, oh, not as many as I would think. Like there’s a ton of people who, who would, could call me and I would help them for sure. But other the way around, I don’t know who those people are. And so maybe talk a little bit more about that, the the friend piece. What does that look like? How have you cultivated those relationships? What’s, you know, kind of what’s been helpful there.

Bob Riedy — Yes. So, you know, for me, it’s been I had I’ve had I had to be intentional about this because I knew I needed it. But, you know, let’s face it. I think one of the reasons why pastors respond the way you just responded is because everybody turns to us. And so we’re expected to be the answer person or the the one who helps. And, you know, we’re not good at receiving ourselves.

Bob Riedy — And so, you know, for me, it was it was like I have a friend here by the name of Andy. And you know, it’s it’s been Andy and I, you know, we we go for walks now on on Sunday. A lot of times on Sunday, Sunday afternoons, we go a state park and we just hike and we talk and we’re honest with each other about, you know, our issues. And, you know, we pray for each other, you know, regularly. It was, I have a a couple people on my staff, similar to that. Don, one of my good friends on our staff.

Bob Riedy — And so I think for me, it was, ah it was finally being honest with the people who are close to me…

Rich Birch — That’s good.

Bob Riedy — …that, hey, I need some help.

Rich Birch — Right. Good.

Bob Riedy — I can’t, I can’t live, you know, the way I was living, ah you know, previously.

Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. What about your staff team? I’m I’m assuming that there was like a certain amount of restructuring. I know there’s executive pastor type people that are thinking about org charts and all that kind of stuff. I’m sure there was, because frankly, I would think as ah trying to get outside of this, the organization was taking advantage of you. They were they were overusing you and you allowed it to be structured that way. There wasn’t like a nefarious, there weren’t people sharpening knives behind your back…

Bob Riedy — Right.

Rich Birch — …but it got to that point.

Bob Riedy — Right.

Rich Birch — And in order for that to readjust, the organization would have had to pick up some stuff.

Bob Riedy — Right.

Rich Birch — So what what did that look like?

Bob Riedy — Yes. So immediately at that particular time in the life of our church, we didn’t really have an executive pastor, believe it or not.

Rich Birch — Okay. Yep.

Bob Riedy — Now think about that. So I was in too many meetings.

Rich Birch — Right.

Bob Riedy — You know, too many meetings. I was dealing with too many problems. And so one of the things I did that fall was moved a young man by the name of Jeremy in our church into the role of executive pastor.

Bob Riedy — And for him, it was a baptism by fire because, you know, I was incapacitated, you know, and everything just kind of went on his plate.

Rich Birch — Yeah, you figure this out.

Bob Riedy — You figure this out. Again, our other pastors, Pastor Don, Pastor Brett, they had to take a whole bunch of things. So that was, I think that was probably the key thing.

Bob Riedy — Another thing was, I you know we we weren’t live streaming at that time, believe it or not. We were still taping. So I was, at that point, I was having to put a sermon together by Thursday morning. And that was part of the exhaustion because I was trying to take Monday off, but I wasn’t really taking it off because I had to start working on the sermon.

Rich Birch — Right.

Bob Riedy — So it would be perfect by Thursday morning. And so if we could got it get get it in the can and send it out. And so that was another thing that we did. We stopped doing all that. And we ended up you know purchasing and and and putting live streaming in. That was that’s been, I thought that was a huge you know thing that that we did.

Rich Birch — Yep.

Bob Riedy — Those two things really helped us. And and then I just determined there are a lot of things that I am going to truly delegate and and not worry about. And, you know, honestly, I this was my fault. You know, I operated by this mindset that if I wasn’t in the meeting, you know, the right decision wasn’t going to happen. And that was, again, that was part of the faulty thinking, you know.

Rich Birch — Right. Right.

Bob Riedy — And so, yeah, so those were some big pieces, you know, that that really helped me.

Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. That’s good. Super, super helpful. So there’s probably, I know there’s pastors that are listening in today…

Bob Riedy — Yeah.

Rich Birch — …that find themselves either at the beginning of, or maybe in the middle of a raging burnout, you know. What would you, and there’s a lot, even just listening to this conversation, there would be like, man, there’s a ton there to, to unpack, but what would be step one for them? What would you, as a friend who’s been down this road, you would say, Hey, this, this would be, this is where they should begin. This is what, you know, what they should do. What would be a first step?

Bob Riedy — Yeah. I think the first thing I would tell them to do is to gather a few trusted people around them and be honest with them about what’s going on.

Rich Birch — Right. Yep.

Bob Riedy — Maybe it’s anxiety, maybe it’s depression. Shame. I mean, the enemy uses this kind of exhaustion to just come in at our weak spots. I think that’d be the first thing. Secondly, you know most of the time with with burnout, there’s a lot of exhaustion. I think I would go to my doctor and you know tell my doctor what’s going on. Thirdly, again, I would go to a counselor. That piece for me was was huge.

Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good.

Bob Riedy — Because most people do not burn out just by exhaustion alone. It’s it’s the faulty thinking…

Rich Birch — Right.

Bob Riedy — …that really contributes a lot to it, you know? And so I think those would be the those… And then I think, you know, depending upon what your counselor and what your ah doctor says, you know, fourthly, you’re going to probably have to take some time off, right?

Rich Birch — Right. Right.

Bob Riedy — Like for me, it was three months almost. And sometimes I wish I would have taken six months off, you know? And, but, you know, you need that time to pull away and to, you know, figure out what’s going on in your in your head.

Bob Riedy — Wayne Cordeiro, Cordeiro, I mean, he, he, he, you know, he had a burnout a number of years ago and he wrote a beautiful book about it. And, you know, in the book, he says, even though you work through burnout, it’s it the woods, you can always see the woods.

Rich Birch — Oh, wow. Yeah, that’s good.

Bob Riedy — And so, ah you know, you you realize that with the the right perfect storm going on in your life and you not thinking correctly, you can always drift back to it.

Rich Birch — Yeah.

Bob Riedy — And and so that that’s been, that was ah that was a great book that really helped me. I’m forgetting the name of his book. I probably have it here somewhere. But that book helped me a lot.

Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. Yeah, I remember a couple years ago, a friend of mine, pastor, friend of mine, dear friend, was was in, you know, was in pretty burnt out state and was pursued their board over like, hey, I need to take some time. And so this friend, I thought, did the brave thing and came to me and said, hey, I need you to help me advocate for myself to my board. Like I need… And I was like, let me at them! You know, like, you know, and and the board wasn’t, the board was very supportive. Like it was not, that they they wondered, you know, hey, what my friend wondered, I wonder what that’s going to be like. And they were, in the end, it was really, I was kind of a non-job. I didn’t have to really do much.

Rich Birch — I but really, I as another pastor, I felt it an honor to stand by my friend and say, you you know, you need to take that time.

Bob Riedy — Yeah.

Rich Birch — And they similarly, you know, they were thinking about, well, maybe I’ll take six weeks. And I was like, man, I think you’ve got to start with at least three months.

Bob Riedy — Yeah.

Rich Birch — If not more. And, you know, they were a teaching pastor, are a teaching pastor of a church. And and I and I was like, I spoke was trying to speak on behalf of the church. I said, selfishly from the church’s perspective, we need you to be healthy. We need you to go away and then come back in a better place. And then there’ll be many years ahead that we can repattern all this stuff.

Bob Riedy — Right. Right.

Rich Birch — But if we if we don’t address this now, man, there’s we have the there’s just a train wreckage of people out there that this has gone sideways on.

Bob Riedy — Yeah. Amen.

Rich Birch — So yeah, I would i would echo the like, hey, you you are probably going to need to take some time. And it probably sounds a lot longer than you need. It sounds scary. Whatever the amount of time, it sounds scary.

Bob Riedy — Yes.

Rich Birch — You’ve put together a resource. Speaking of resources…

Bob Riedy — Yes.

Rich Birch — …you put your together a resource, “Burn out and Life Lessons Talk”. Tell us a little bit about that. We want to make that available to people. You’ve been, I appreciate it – even today, you’ve referenced a number of resources, but here’s here’s another one. Talk us through that. What were you hoping about how would you help it would how would you hope it would help in the midst of all that?

Bob Riedy — Yes. Before I do that, I want to just put a plug in here for my staff, the board of our church and my church. They have been amazing to me during this time. If it weren’t for them, I would not be in ministry. Honestly, that was one of my big fears. What’s going to happen to me? This I was 63 when this happened to me. And ah I thought, you know, what am I going to do? And my church, people, I mean, the letters, the notes, and especially when I started getting vulnerable and letting them know what really happened to me. Man, people have come out of the woodwork.

Rich Birch — Yeah.

Bob Riedy — And I’ve sent so many people to counseling as well. But I just want to say, to me…

Rich Birch — That’s good.

Bob Riedy — …having such a supportive church and staff and board has been truly amazing. And I praise God for that. I’m actually in the process of writing a book. Probably about you know halfway done. And the resource that I gave you is like just a little compilation you know of what happened.

Rich Birch — Right. Okay.

Bob Riedy — I’ve given this talk, you know, in a number of places. I gave it at our church. I’ve given it to mission agencies, retreats and things like that. And so what what I’ve just tried to put together there is hey, here’s what happened to me. Here’s what I needed to wrestle through. And then, here are the disciplines that I’ve put in place in my life, you know, to get to a better place.

Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good.

Bob Riedy — And so, you know, I hope that, you know, people who are, you know, wrestling with the same thing can read it and at least be encouraged to take the right, you know, the right steps.

Rich Birch — Yeah, I really appreciate that, Bob. And we’ll we’ll link to that. It’s in the show notes there. But I, you know, I know there are people that are listening in that are thinking through these issues. And I also just want to underline what you said there. You might be listening in today as a staff leader, as a volunteer, as an elder. And, you know, what happens is when someone comes with this kind of, when they’re when they reach out and say, hey, I’m struggling with this, what you say in the first 30 seconds really does matter.

Bob Riedy — Yes.

Rich Birch — And, you know, being reflexive to support and to say, yes, like we want to help you get healthy. We want to help you find, we need more leaders. Like it sounds like your church has been, you know, they were there. They, they helped you walk through it, help you get the time you needed. And then look on the other side, like you’ve continued to serve there and you know, it, it, you know, didn’t end up in all the negative situations that we have seen.

Bob Riedy — Yes.

Rich Birch — So yeah, it’s, it’s great.

Bob Riedy — Glory to God for that.

Rich Birch — Yeah. That’s amazing.

Bob Riedy — In fact in fact, here’s what’s happened. So now you know we’re on the other side of a lot of things. And I believe our church is stronger than it’s ever been before.

Rich Birch — Praise God.

Bob Riedy — We’re seeing more we’re seeing more life. We’re we’re almost back to our pre-pandemic numbers. But we’re seeing more life change than I have ever seen in 40 years of ministry. And I and one of the things that taught me, Rich, was that when when it it stopped being about me… I think there was too much about me. I have to be honest about that.

Rich Birch — That’s good. That’s good.

Bob Riedy — There was too much that was about me. And when it stopped being about me and when I was at my weakest, Rich, Jesus was at his strongest.

Rich Birch — Yeah. Praise God.

Bob Riedy — And the church, I think, is stronger than it’s ever been. And it, you know, it took a burnout for me to see that in living color.

Rich Birch — Right. Right.

Bob Riedy — And and we saw, I see that in living color and I praise God for it, you know.

Rich Birch — Well, and I want to honor you. It wasn’t just a burnout because you then went through the work to pursue Jesus and get healthy and readjust your life and and then walk through the other side. Like that, you know, God’s using that. He’s using all of that. And yeah, there was a time, and I I’m sure that you remember this time, where I think people were looking for religious leaders that seemed superhuman, that were like, those people are they’re transcendent. They’re like totally different than us, but that just isn’t the case. People today, they’re wanting someone, their question they’re asking isn’t, is it true? They’re saying, does it work? And they’re they’re looking at you as you go through that and say, wow, like it it’s changed Bob. And man, if it can change Bob, maybe it can change me. And so that doesn’t surprise me at all. That doesn’t surprise me at all that you’re seeing the kind of impact in your community. Because at the end of the day, people want that.

Bob Riedy — They do.

Rich Birch — I think too many of us, we build up these walls around us where it’s like, oh, I don’t want to let you in. But actually, ironically, I think that’s the thing that that ultimately Jesus is asking us to do.

Bob Riedy — Yeah. Amen.

Rich Birch — Well, Bob, this has been amazing. Where, I want people to connect with you, to connect with the church. Where do we want to send people online?

Bob Riedy — Yes, they can go to codyork.org. And that’s our church’s website. And really everything ah is on there that people can…

Rich Birch — Yeah.

Bob Riedy — …they can connect with me. There’s a place where they can reach out to me if they’d like to do that. But our resources and and all that is, is they’re all there.

Rich Birch — Yeah. Appreciate you, Bob. Appreciate you being on and just want to honor you.

Bob Riedy — Yes.

Rich Birch — Thank you for taking time to come back and and look forward to the that continuing story. Thanks so much, sir.

Bob Riedy — Thank you so much, Rich. God bless you and your ministry.