People who are like shipball people anyway, they don't ever get to where they want to be. When you're on the success ladder and you get to a certain level, everybody above it kind of sees what you're about. I just dom most of em are the opposite. Most of em used as a tool to create fulfilment and value in other people's lives. Making money is about creating value. It's not about making money, you know. And that's something we'll get to here in a second.