Like literally, I would be the happiest person, well, one of the happiest people ever, if Apple would come out in one of these WWDCs and say, every future Mac or every in Apple Silicon Mac ever Will support installing Linux as well as Mac OS Like if I can opt out of Mac OS and get Linux on a machine That'd be cool and if they had partnered with a boon to or whomever was like the Goliath that just enabled the Future Linux desktop forever kind of idea is here idea. That'd be cool.

Are we in Adam? Adam is wishing this or is he predicting this?

Oh, it's both. I think I think it's both. I think Apple would have some major plus on their side if they came out and said we we create the best hardware obviously with how much effort they do. They believe that. And they obviously create some of the best operating system software out there. We're all loving it, of course, right? And they made this two things together. But they said, you know what, the world does have one other operating system out that is free and open source in every way, shape and form that free can be. And we want to support that too on our hardware. I think that would be so absolutely cool. And they probably sell a lot more hardware because there's people out there buying other hardware that is not so much subpar, because there's a lot of great players out there. I got a System76 t -shirt I often wear on shows. Big fan of them. I have it on a machine, but I play with them. I respect anybody driving Linux forward, especially the desktop, because it hasn't arrived fully yet. There's a lot of people who use it, but it's just not here. I think the Linux desktop might actually arrive if they did something like this because Apple devices are so ubiquitous and they really are Some of the best hardware ever if they would support Linux by default as well as Mac OS either or not some sort of in the middle It'd be amazing for PR. It'd be amazing for Linux, it'd be amazing for the Linux desktop. We've all been thinking maybe actually arrived this year, which hasn't. And I think you'd see a lot of people choosing Linux in certain scenarios. Now that being said, I got there by saying, I would be excited about this centralized Mac machine that powers my whole house and my vision non -pros and my vision pros or whatever, how are they productize this thing? In theory, only because I still love the freedoms of Linux. I still love to install packages and do different things. So maybe the hardware, I'd like the hardware but not the software. I

don't know. Your prediction drew a very rare double eyebrow raise simultaneously from Jared and I. Same time? Jared, I'm curious. You're... Let's clip that. Let's clip

that. The double eyebrow. Okay. What are your thoughts then as I pontificated and wished at the same time? My thoughts, I think it's a nice wish. I just don't think

there's any reason for Apple to do that. It doesn't play other strengths. don't need the PR. Okay, here would be one reason, although macOS is not the bastion of the regulation against Apple. It would be if there were reasons of monopolistic or anti -competitive practices that were required, that were causing regulators come after them as they are, for instance, in the app store, as they are, for instance, on iOS. Like if those things were happening at the macOS level, and this somehow won them brownie points with regulators, that would be the one reason why I think they might consider to do something like that. But otherwise, I just don't see any reason why they would ever do that. I

agree. That's why it's more of a wish than a prediction. Because I agree. I think what you just outlined would be one of the reasons why they would do it. Potentially the only reason why they would do it, because they don't gain much really at all. And it just kind of sucks when you get to certain obsolescence with a Mac hardware and you can't install the latest macOS operating system. And then like this machine is still amazing. I take great care of

all my machines. I got super old machines that... You can run Linux on them, right? You're just wanting Apple to like rubber stamp it or what? Well,

so all the workarounds with Linux, especially on Apple Silicon is a workaround. I haven't caught up. So I could be mistaken to some but they're not blessed by Apple. They're workarounds from the dev community who love the hardware and want to see Linux live there. Now, older Intel machines, yes, but as soon as you introduced that T1 or that T2 chip, whatever that additional chip was, it caused issues. And Linux, you could install it, but you would have issues. And you'd have to do workarounds and install non -free open source packages. And you to do Different things to get Linux to live there and operate there. So they just don't have native support for it. You can I've got older 2004 Mac minis I've converted from the two and a half spinning a hard drive to an SSD I've gutted it put an SSD in there. It's got enough RAM, it's got four cores, and I've run Proxmox on that. And they make nice little, when Raspberry Pis were not available, Raspberry Pi replacements, because you can install Proxmox and do a bunch of cool stuff that you cannot do on a Raspberry Pi, and I've never really had any issues with them. But they're old, four cores, you can't expand it beyond that. But they do give it life. I think the thing I'm camping out on is more like once the device that I've taken care of has become to Apple's eyes obsolete and they don't let me install the latest operating system it kind of dies in the vine or for the most part becomes less and less useful but still has so much value to give and if they would bless that with Linux I could hand that down to a young person who's just learning because it's got no value to me as a hardware, but as a software standpoint, I can't eat, I can't get them with this Mac OS. So give them Linux, the latest version of it.

It would be a green argument, right? They say that there is even reuse better than recycling. I think it's more likely that when we use versus recycle, yeah, when a device becomes obsolete software update will update it and then on the next boot, the person will just see, Hey, your machine is obsolete. Here's a coupon for 10% off at apple .com and then just in operate the computer after a certain point, because I feel that way anyway, with Apple's operating systems, I have an original iPhone edge sitting in the drawer, and maybe an old iPod touch. But the last version of the OS that it could run is so old now that you can go to zero websites because it doesn't have HTTPS, SSL, search for anything. So you're right, you would basically need Linux after a certain number of years on the note though, of like having this base station that you want. It's not just a Linux idea. It's like, it's a Unix idea and it's much older. And there's a, I got a pulled up the YouTube of a WWDC 1997 right after Steve Jobs came back. Wow. He did this big and A and it's an hour and change, long Q and A. A lot of it's about open document format and stuff that nobody cares about anymore. Some of it was really about the gestalt of computing as it was happening in Steve Jobs, the guy who had just been running Next for over a decade, his brain as opposed to Steve Jobs, the one who went back to Apple and made it all about hardware sales and product. He made a couple comments about how having that client server nature of all of your documents, so nice. He's like, I'm at home and I can turn on my and then or my eye He's at Apple now. So he's I think says I'm acting he's like no, I guess I'm exiting exists anyway I turn on my computer and my user directory is exactly the same as when I go drive into work because it's all synced in one central place and of course, that's like the Sync became a four -letter word, but like that was the dream that they were trying to implement with iCloud and kind of have right. Like I've got a Mac studio here. I've got my M3 map over there. My, I sync my documents and desktop and most of my other files via iCloud. I mostly don't have to think about it. And so I think that was achieved, but it was really cool. And I think you might enjoy watching this video because it's much more like Unix, Steve Jobs. And so from a spiritual alignment perspective, I think that you'd find a lot to like in all these his attitude around a lot of the same the same basic vibe. Yeah,

we'll do that up and drop in the shadows if we can. Well, maybe we finish where we started,

which was the land of the rising sun. Let me tell you about a sahi Is that how you say it? Justin Asahi? Asahi Linux, which is an effort to port Linux to Apple Silicon Max. We've been trying to get some Asahi Linux folks on the show. We've had many, many listeners say, please talk about this. they just keep saying no basically or ignoring us so if you are plugged into a sahi Linux and you could give us a Plug into that community and get one of the lead leaders of the community to talk to us That'd be awesome Jared

will friend you will send you a free case of a sahi beer. Yes,

which I don't know if that's good I hope that's good beer It's great beer. Okay in Japan If you're what if you're in Japan,

although although I think that if you if you find asahi beer on draft in America It's been imported. Okay, that's how you know, it's the real deal. Cool Well, look out for that. But yeah, also he Linux seems to run well I know there's I think a lot of the energy around asahi Linux if I'm not wrong Is that people are running proton, the steam kind of the equivalent of steams like game developer toolkit for being able to run Windows games on in a Linux environment. And so whether or not that's why you want to use Linux, it's at least I think given it some reason for existence.

Yeah, it's a super cool project. And it's not just a distro. It's like bigger than distros or maybe like underneath a distro. The way they're doing it's like drivers and a bunch of low level stuff that will enable other distros or distros in general such as fedora such as perhaps a boon to I don't know. I haven't looked too close into it.

Don't go installing it by the way because I said games could run in it. I'm saying I think there's a lot of development energy. Yeah.