The more you get up in the executive team level, it can kind of get a little harder for people to be vulnerable around the fact that maybe they don't have discernment. The other place that we're finding this being a harder conversation to have is in the sort of faith based church world. It's hard in that context for people to realize like, Oh, that's not the same as having expertise in what it means in spiritual life or, or scripture and being able to point people in the right direction.