Luck Reinforces Bad Sales Habits

In this episode, Jack Cochran and Matthew James are joined by Art Fromm, author of "Making Seamless Sales" and sales enablement expert, to discuss how presales and sales teams can work together more effectively. Art shares insights from his 25+ years in sales enablement, exploring the common disconnects between SEs and AEs, and provides practical strategies for building stronger partnerships that drive better outcomes.

The conversation covers the evolution from tribal knowledge to systematic collaboration, the importance of discovery before demos, and how to create value perception rather than just showing features. Art emphasizes that when teams work together properly versus teams that don't, there's a 37% difference in sales outcomes - a substantial opportunity sitting on the table.

Connect with Us

• Connect with Jack Cochran: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jackcochran/

• Connect with Matthew James: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewyoungjames/

• Connect with Art Fromm: https://www.linkedin.com/in/artfromm/

Links and Resources Mentioned

• Join Presales Collective Slack: https://www.presalescollective.com/slack

• Art's Website: https://teamsalesdevelopment.com

• Team Sales Development: https://www.teamsalesdevelopment.com

• "Making Seamless Sales" by Art Fromm: https://teamsalesdevelopment.com/making-seamless-sales-book/

Timestamps

00:00 Welcome

03:55 Sol/Con East 2025

05:26 Making SEAMless Sales

11:27 Our Solutions Have No Value

24:02 You Only Get One Shot

29:42 Aren't We All Presales

Key Topics Covered

1. The SEAM Framework

   • SE (Solutions Engineers) and AM (Account Managers) working together

   • Breaking down organizational silos between presales and sales

   • Creating systematic approaches rather than leaving collaboration to chance

2. Moving Beyond the Demo Rush

   • Why "we need to do a demo" often leads to failure

   • The importance of proper qualification and discovery first

   • How luck can reinforce bad habits in sales processes

3. Creating Value Perception

   • Understanding that solutions have no inherent value

   • The Venn diagram of customer needs overlapping with solutions

   • Turning "sell" into "buy" and "push" into "pull"

4. The Trust Dynamic

   • Presales comes with trust that can be lost

   • Sales lacks trust that needs to be gained

   • How proper discovery helps both teams build credibility

5. Organizational Alignment

   • Top-down (business focused) vs bottom-up (technical focused) approach

   • Creating healthy overlap between sales and presales responsibilities

   • The pyramid model of customer engagement levels

6. Training and Enablement

   • Moving beyond feature-function training to client success thinking

   • Understanding the complete buyer journey from hello to consumption

   • The concept of "solution enablement" as a continuous process