Engineering leaders who are looking at the board with maybe less empathy for the user and more strategic as puzzle pieces. There's something inherently evil about when we say something is a sociopath you see what I mean. The inspiration aspect of things might be one that we might classically put into the empathy in terms of like, Hey, can people understand you can you understand them and all that sort of stuff. And if you're an executive, like the vast majority of your time should be in sociologist mode.

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