Steve Jobs: Brilliant, Difficult, and Visionary

Joel shares stories of clashes with Steve Jobs and highlights Jobs' ability to define marketing and anticipate desires.

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In this episode, I sit down with Joel Kocher, the 70-year-old CEO & Co-Founder of Humann, a $200M company redefining cardiovascular health. We unpack how Joel went from early retirement and burnout to discovering the "miracle molecule" nitric oxide — the foundation behind Humann's science-backed approach to longevity.

He explains why most people misunderstand heart health, how clinical trials became his edge, and what it takes to build a lasting company.We also dive deep into leadership — from his years as the #2 at Dell to lessons learned from Michael Dell and Steve Jobs.

Joel shares the mindset that's kept him young, the frameworks that landed Humann on the Inc. 5000 list ten times, and why focus, conviction, and adaptability matter more than ever in business and life.This conversation is a deep dive into longevity, leadership, and what it really takes to stay young — in business and in life. Enjoy!

00:00:00 Trailer

00:01:40 How Old Is Your Arterial Age?

00:04:55 Nitric Oxide - The Story of The Miracle Molecule

00:10:13 Does Cardiovascular Health Mean Heart Health?

00:16:46 Product and Development Cycle for Humann

00:20:38 How Does R&D Work For Nitric Oxide?

00:23:02 You've Made The Inc 5000 List 10 Times. What Makes a Great Leader?

00:34:19 You've Worked With Michael Dell. What Was His Superpower?

00:36:45 Dell Was One of The Fastest Growing Companies. What are the Big Lessons?

00:40:38 As A Leader, How Do You Handle Team Disagreements?

00:43:14 You've Told Steve Jobs To F*** Himself. What's the Story?

00:49:05 How Do You Find The Right People To Be On Your Team?