Episode 12: Demand Avoidance and PDA: Exploring the Overlap and Difference [Featuring Tara Holmquist]
Divergent Conversations
The Fantasy of Starting Over
I think that there is this fantasy of starting over or just not having anyone know anything and you can just start actually. Maybe that feels like a common fantasy for a lot of nerd, evergent people who have struggled so significantly with social struggles and just the day to day. And that's a really lived experience of what it's like to live inside a body with a nervous system that we have. You're really hoping for like the Thanos finger snap and then half of those people are just gone gone. It's hard to not be assaulted by demands all day long.
In this episode, we explore demand avoidance, a common experience among neurodivergent people. We delve into the factors contributing to demand avoidance, including executive functioning challenges, sensory issues, and a desire for autonomy. Additionally, we take a closer look at Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA), also known as Pervasive Drive for Autonomy, a complex and often misunderstood subtype of autism. Join us as we navigate this important topic, gaining a deeper understanding of demand avoidance and its impact on neurodivergent lives.
Dr. Megan Anna Neff, an AuDHDer psychologist and mother of a child with PDA, describes it as "anything that comes at the person that threatens autonomy invokes an extreme fight-flight response," and says that it can be seen through a lens of "nervous system through stress response," making it different than something like oppositional defiant disorder or conduct disorder.
Individuals with PDA sometimes develop sophisticated and subtle masking strategies to appear compliant and cooperative on the outside, even though they may struggle internally, which can involve imitating expected social behaviors and responses while suppressing their genuine feelings of overwhelm and resistance.
In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Neff speak with Tara Holmquist, PsyD, about PDA and her personal experience as an AuDHDer with PDA.
If you're interested in learning more about PDA, trauma, and demand avoidance, this episode is for you.
Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:
- Understand how PDA shows up in the lives of those who have it and how it both internally and externally impacts their lives.
- See how demand avoidance is often a coping mechanism rooted in trauma.
- Learn coping strategies and skills for managing demands.
PDA can be a painful and overwhelming internal struggle that also manifests in ways that aren't always received well on the external side of things when the pressure of demands just becomes too much.
This episode aims to shed some light on the complex world of demand avoidance and PDA to gain a deeper understanding.
More about Tara Holmquist:
Tara is a clinical psychologist licensed in CA and WI. She has been in private practice for about 5 years working with adults with relational/attachment trauma, as well as addiction/substance use. Her practice is exclusively telehealth, and her practice values include a heavy examination and challenge of implicit biases, internalized capitalism, and patriarchal leanings. Her practice is trauma and social justice informed. And she's a pretty cool regular human too.
- Tara's Facebook: facebook.com/tmhpsych
- Tara's Instagram: instagram.com/tmhpsychotherapy
Additional Resources:
- Dr. Neff's blog post on "Autism PDA Explained: The Core Characteristics of Pathological Demand Avoidance"
- PDA MasterClass: For an in-depth clinical definition of PDA, check out Neurodivergent Insights MasterClass featuring Dr. Donna Henderson.
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✨ The Autistic Burnout Workbook:
I'm Dr. Megan Anna Neff, owner of Neurodivergent Insights, and I'm excited to announce the release of my book, The Autistic Burnout Workbook. I'm running a special deal for those who support my work. After you order, you will get a coupon code that you can use toward our store for the same amount. For example, the workbook costs $18.99, so after purchase, you'd get a credit of $18.99 to use in our digital shop or in our Etsy shop, which gets you another digital workbook of your choosing for free. This is technically a pre-order promotion that was originally set to end on March 10th, but for listeners of the podcast, I'm going to extend this deal, so if you buy the book in the next month, you can also redeem this special. Thank you for supporting my work. It means so much to me and I hope that you will find this a helpful resource for you as you continue to build a life that is a bit more resilient to autistic burnout.
- Use the following link to grab this offer: neurodivergentinsights.notion.site/17ea17a4bb8b8034ab2bf9b03c560a64
- After this deal ends, you can use this link to purchase this workbook: simonandschuster.com/books/The-Autistic-Burnout-Workbook/Megan-Anna-Neff/9781507223062
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💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground
Divergent Conversations Underground is a space for messy conversations, real connection, and unfinished thoughts in a neurodivergent-affirming community. If you’d like to go deeper with us into more nuanced, searching conversations, join here: divergentconversations.substack.com
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Mentioned in this episode:
The Autistic Burnout Workbook
I'm Dr. Megan Anna Neff, owner of Neurodivergent Insights, and I'm excited to announce the release of my book, The Autistic Burnout Workbook. I'm running a special deal for those who support my work. After you order, you will get a coupon code that you can use toward our store for the same amount. For example, the workbook costs $18.99, so after purchase, you'd get a credit of $18.99 to use in our digital shop or in our Etsy shop, which gets you another digital workbook of your choosing for free. This is technically a pre-order promotion that was originally set to end on March 10th, but for listeners of the podcast, I'm going to extend this deal, so if you buy the book in the next month, you can also redeem this special. Thank you for supporting my work. It means so much to me and I hope that you will find this a helpful resource for you as you continue to build a life that is a bit more resilient to autistic burnout. Use the following link to grab this offer: https://neurodivergentinsights.notion.site/17ea17a4bb8b8034ab2bf9b03c560a64 After this deal ends, you can use this link to purchase this workbook: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Autistic-Burnout-Workbook/Megan-Anna-Neff/9781507223062
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