I think it's about resizing in strategy, conversations and decision making. We need to have a practice that actual helps us descenter whiteness. That was the needle i was trying togo. I don't feel that naming her races would have been completely accurate. It wouldn't have been an easy way for us to distance ourselves from hundred years of her life without actually interrogating how those behaviors have continued to be perpetuate inside the work and the movement. And so karen, was a nod to the next generation, to my staff, to say, like, i see you, and we are going to actually take this work on internally inside of the movement.

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