There are no shortage of scandals plaguing Washington D.C. right now.

One that has captivated much of the political and media professions involves Olivia Nuzzi, a political writer formerly of the magazine New York, and now an editor with Vanity Fair, who was involved in a relationship with Robert F. Kennedy Jr. during the 2024 campaign.

Nuzzi’s relationship has provided incredible fodder for the press, not least because her ex-fiance, Ryan Lizza, has penned a multi-part series on the matter where he has unspooled numerous accusations against her and RFK Jr., in anticipation of the publication of Nuzzi’s book, American Canto, which was released Tuesday. Those accusations are quite serious, many of which Nuzzi addresses in her book, including an admission that she secretly aided RFK Jr.’s campaign. The more important ones, however, deal with RFK Jr. himself, including the charge that he has hid drug use and was both manipulative of and threatening to Nuzzi during their relationship.

Nuzzi has not discussed any of it on camera.

Until now.

In a sit down interview with Tim Miller, she talked about the ethical breaches that cost her her job, the conflict between her responsibilities as a reporter, the private relationship that blurred those boundaries, and the fear and isolation she experienced as the scandal unfolded. She describes withdrawing from the world, fleeing across the country, and trying to rebuild her sense of self while contending with public shaming and, what she saw as, the “weaponization” of her personal life against her.

She also offers some insights and revelations regarding the now Health and Human Service secretary, who has denied the relationship. She and Tim discuss her relationship with RFK Jr. and the wreckage that followed, whether he continues to use drugs while occupying a cabinet post, what type of threats she felt, and why she didn’t feel compelled to speak up as it became clear that Kennedy was ascending to remarkable heights of political power.

They also discuss the broader political moment that shaped all of it: the Trump era’s constant tug between reality and spectacle, the corrosion of public trust, and the ways journalists become characters in the dramas they cover.

And they broach one of the more understated questions throughout this entire, sordid ordeal: why even bother writing this book to begin with? Nuzzi explains that writing was an act of survival and the clarity that came from separating herself from Washington, D.C.’s rituals and delusions. Along the way, she says, she became further entrenched in the delusions she was hoping to escape.
show notes

Buy American Canto by Olivia Nuzzi

Postbag Edition: Sefton Park Palm House

Gardeners' Question Time

Ad break

The AI-powered Podcast Player