Behavioral Science Improves School Lunches

What do you do when life changes in ways you didn't choose—and didn't see coming? In this deeply emotional and intellectually grounding conversation, I sit down with Dr. Maya Shankar, cognitive scientist, former White House advisor, and host of the podcast A Slight Change of Plans, to talk about change, identity, grief, and uncertainty.

Maya shares her powerful personal story of being accepted into Juilliard at a young age, only to have her violin career abruptly end due to a devastating injury. From there, we explore how unexpected change threatens our identity, why the human brain craves certainty, and how men, husbands, and fathers can navigate seasons where the future they imagined suddenly disappears. This conversation hit me personally as I opened up about my son preparing to leave for college, and Maya offers language, tools, and clarity for anyone navigating major life transitions.

Timeline Summary:

[0:00] What happens when life changes and you don't get a vote.

[1:28] Introducing Dr. Maya Shankar and the theme of unexpected change.

[2:10] Being accepted into Juilliard at age nine and pursuing music at the highest level.

[3:05] A career-ending violin injury and the grief that followed.

[4:05] How loss threatens not just what we do—but who we are.

[7:44] Learning violin by ear and developing passion without perfection.

[9:03] A mother's fearlessness and the power of bold action.

[11:06] Cold emailing, courage, and creating unexpected opportunities.

[13:39] Being bullied as a child and finding safety in family and music.

[15:16] Larry reflects on marriage drift and identity shifts.

[18:06] Pivoting from academia to public policy and working at the White House.

[21:51] The power of defaults and how behavioral science changed public outcomes.

[25:17] Why uncertainty is harder on the brain than certainty—even bad certainty.

[27:05] The illusion of control and how change shatters it.

[27:31] Anchoring identity to why you do things, not just what you do.

[29:45] Navigating infertility, loss, and redefining self-worth.

[33:11] Why we resist change even when it's necessary for growth.

[36:00] Marriage, evolution, and the "end of history illusion."

[39:32] How hardship can lead to unexpected personal growth.

[45:43] Gratitude as a tool for identity resilience.

[48:25] Helping kids navigate change while managing your own emotions.

[50:28] The grief of kids leaving home—even when it's a good thing.

[54:26] Why we are more resilient than we think.

[56:15] The importance of community during seasons of change.

[59:19] Maya shares her book, podcast, and where to connect.

Five Key Takeaways

1. Change threatens identity as much as circumstance, which is why it feels so destabilizing.
2. The brain prefers certainty—even negative certainty—over uncertainty, making transitions especially stressful.
3. Anchoring identity to your values and motivations creates resilience when roles and plans fall away.
4. We underestimate our ability to adapt and overestimate how painful change will be long-term.
5. Connection, community, and self-reflection are essential tools for navigating major life transitions.

Links & Resources

• Dr. Maya Shankar's Book: https://a.co/d/3u87zps
• Dr. Maya Shankar on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drmayashankar/?hl=en
• Roommates to Soulmates Course: https://thedadedge.com/soulmates
• Episode Show Notes & Resources: https://thedadedge.com/1420

Closing Remark

If this episode gave you language for a season of change you're navigating right now, please rate, review, follow, and share the podcast. You're not alone in the uncertainty—and you're far more resilient than you think.