I think that whether you you could just drop the category of morality and just say, oke, morals don't exist. I'm a moral nihilist, right? There's no good and evil. There's no, you know, i'll drop all those ca boyes. We still have this navigation problem. There are states of ness that are available, whether we know they exist or not. And the question is, how can most of us get to the best places most reliably and avoid the worst possible misery for everyone?"

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