Episode 205 with Jen Fry.

“I like to tell people that I’m not nice. I’m kind, but I’m not nice. I think niceness is weaponized way too much against people.”

Jen is an educator, speaker, and author of the book “I Said No: How to Have Boundaries and Backbone While Not Being a Jerk.”

Saying no is supposed to be simple — but for so many women with ADHD, it feels loaded with guilt, overthinking, and the fear of disappointing everyone around you.

Jen is a former college volleyball coach with a PhD in sports geography, and she now works at the intersection of conflict, culture, and sport, speaking to teams and organizations around the country.

We talk about the ADHD tendency to be a people-pleaser, and why Jen proudly says she’s kind, not nice. In this conversation, we talk about ADHD, hyperfocus, time blindness, imposter syndrome, and why so many high-achieving women end up chronically overcommitted, burnt out, and resentful.

We also explore what it really takes to say no — not just to other people, but to our own overexcited ADHD brains, our endless ideas, and our impulse to fill every spare moment.

If you’ve ever struggled with boundaries, overcommitting, or worrying that saying no makes you “difficult,” this episode is going to hit very close to home.