John is joined by a pair of former GOP panjandrums turned NeverTrump stalwarts — attorney George Conway and political strategist Stuart Stevens — to discuss the Kilmar Abrego Garcia case and Donald Trump’s efforts to turn the U.S. into a police state. Conway and Stevens argue that the guardrails preventing that outcome are banged up but still holding; that the real test of them will come when (not if) the administration defies the Supreme Court even more flagrantly than it has already; and that Harvard is offering the kind of a master class in resistance to MAGA bullying that many of the nation’s top law firms have been too gutless and/or greedy to provide. They also explain why Trump’s economic illiteracy and its consequences may prove to be what saves American democracy.

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