33. TBPN (John Coogan & Jordi Hays) - Inside Tech's Water Cooler
Dialectic
Explorer vs. Exploit: Experimentation with Constraints
They describe fostering experimentation while protecting core show elements and learning from tests.
John Coogan & Jordi Hays are the hosts of TBPN (X, YouTube, Spotify, Substack), a daily live show covering the technology business. TBPN was launched only about a year ago, but has become a mainstay in tech culture and a center of gravity forterminally online technologists.
John was previously an EIR at Founders Fund and tech YouTuber. He co-founded Lucy Nicotine and Soylent. Jordi has co-founded and invested in many business including Party Round/Capital and Branded Native, a podcast and youtube ad network.
We cover the origins of TBPN, or the Technology Business Programming Network, from its beginnings as "Technology Brothers" to the interplay between John's love for technology and Jordi's for business. They share how they've built a media business in an era of infinite competition by leaning into high volume and constant iteration, all while treating media as the "main thing."
We discuss brand building and innovating on form by borrowing ideas from outside the tech industry—from Formula One and SportsCenter to Hollywood films—to avoid tech's tendency toward circular references. We also talk about their focus on X/Twitter and a niche, highly informed audience, rather than trying to go too wide. We also chat about what makes their partnership work and how they take the work incredibly seriously while not taking themselves seriously at all.
Transcript and all links available at https://dialectic.fm/tbpn
Timestamps
- 00:00: Opening Highlights
- 03:18: Intro & Background
- 06:08: Technology vs. Business and the Strategy behind TBPN
- 12:08: Building a Media Business when Distribution is not Scarce
- 22:26: Being Entrepreneurs and Talent
- 30:33: Avoiding Audience Capture
- 35:57: Why Advertising is a Good Model
- 44:04: Technology's Circular References and Borrowing Ideas from New Places
- 53:20: Narrow vs. Wide Appeal
- 59:44: X (Twitter)-First Content and Other Platforms
- 1:14:35: Making Content People Want to Share and Taking Yourself Seriously and Unseriously
- 1:20:28: Valuing Brand
- 1:30:10: Balancing Focus and Iteration
- 1:35:25: Endurance & Evolution
- 1:40:34: A Day in the Life of TBPN & Learning to be Newscasters
- 1:49:59: Jordi & John as a duo, Will Manidis, and the beginnings of TBPN
- 2:02:57: Grab Bag: Bias to Action, 15 Minute Interviews, Not Journalism, Talent, and Domination of Spirit
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