The Meaning of Meaning | Transcendent Naturalism #7
Dr. John Vervaeke
Exploration of Human Existence Within Symbols and Distributed Cognition
Exploring how human beings exist within symbols, creating a participatory knowing of reality. The conversation delves into distributed cognition and collective intelligence, with a focus on the deeper symbolic disclosure of being and its religious dimensions.
In Episode 7 of TN, John and Gregg welcome Brendan Graham Dempsey. Brendan is a writer, theologian, and theorist whose work focuses on the meaning crisis and the nature of spirituality in metamodernity. He is also the host of the Metamodern Spirituality podcast, and he runs the Skymeadow Retreat, which has hosted several metamodern spirituality events. In this episode, Brendan shares about his recent work, which he wrote about in Emergentism, and from his in-progress work on the meaning of meaning. He shows how his work, UTOK, and Bobby Azarian’s unified theory of reality can provide a framework to delineate the history and development of cultural meaning-making systems (i.e., large-scale systems of justification). This episode is full of powerful convergences between Brendan’s vision and the worldview for bridging science and spirituality that is emerging in TN.
Resources:
Claude E. Shannon: Founder of Information Theory - Graham P. Collins
Publications:
A Spirit of Trust: A Reading of Hegel's Phenomenology - Robert B. Brandom
The information theory of individuality - David Krakauer
Semantic information, autonomous agency and non-equilibrium statistical physics - Artemy Kolchinsky and David H. Wolpert
Videos:
The Reality of Meaning: Knowledge, Value, and Complexity | Consilience Conference '23
Books:
The Romance of Reality: How the Universe Organizes Itself to Create Life, Consciousness, and Cosmic Complexity - Bobby Azarian
Context Changes Everything: How Constraints Create Coherence - Alicia Juarrero
Cosmic Evolution: The Rise of Complexity in Nature - Eric J. Chaisson
Quotes:
"Transcendent naturalism is trying to articulate a new worldview that holds science and spirituality, [and] orients us towards a frame of understanding for the 21st century that can enable a collective orientation toward wisdom.” - Gregg Henriques
"Meaning equals information relevant to enhancing viability of an entity in context, and meaning is inherently transjective. It's not in the subject, it's not in the object, it's in the relationship between the two." - Brendan Graham Dempsey
"Earth burns like a quasar of complexification in the night sky. So if our measure is mass, then yes, but if our measure is complexification, especially an ontic epistemic conformity that affords awareness, experience, potentiality, growth, oriented towards a potential future, et cetera, that is an area in which we find ourselves quite uniquely situated in the universe in terms of the everyday knowledge that we have of things in the world. " - Gregg Henriques
Timecodes:
[00:00:00] Dr. John Vervaeke introduces the episode and the guests, Gregg Henriques and Brendan Graham Dempsey. The episode focuses on Transcendent Naturalism within the Cognitive Science Show.
[00:02:34] Gregg Henriques introduces transjective epistemology, detailing its relation to pragmatism.
[00:03:13] Collective awakening towards wisdom is discussed, focusing on its societal implications.
[00:07:55] Brendan Graham Dempsey explains the principle of a naturalistic universe and the energy-information relationship.
[00:10:40] Dempsey reveals the concept of figure-ground distinction in information theory.
[00:16:28] The discussion revolves around the learning process in cosmic evolution and complexification.
[00:20:10] The concept of symbolic learning and its relevance to the spiritual and sacred is discussed with emphasis on the need for a focus on this area in the conversation.
[00:27:52] Dr. Vervaeke explores the idea that humans are symbols, connecting to collective intelligence.
[00:30:14] Dempsey discusses the role of symbolic information in forming justification systems and the enculturation of individuals.
[00:35:00] The conversation shifts to penetrating the unknown and restructuring it for higher complexity.
[00:39:16] Henriques connects to justification systems theory, revealing the alignment with Habermas's structure.
[00:45:23] Dempsey delves into the progression from modernity to post-modernity and new integrations.
[00:53:41] Dr. Vervaeke criticizes postmodernism and its impact on the understanding of reason and wisdom.
[00:56:26] Dempsey responds to Dr. Vervaeke, discussing faith in the emergence of new understanding.
[01:00:39] Henriques shares his agnostic stance, addressing the expansion of knowledge within ambiguity.
[01:04:09] Discussion of trust and cosmic history in response to Dr. Vervaeke's post-Hegelian, Neoplatonic faith.
[01:07:12] The importance of pattern recognition in navigating a chaotic world.
[01:07:39] Henriques describes his role in carrying a "baton of energy information" within the greater story, and discusses the importance of being a good ancestor and considering the ripple effects of our actions across time, emphasizing the need for a better understanding of our human natures and our relationships.
The AI-powered Podcast Player
