I think the first thing can be a lot more shallow often because I don't know whether it's culture or just human nature. A lot of the times before we can really get to the heart of things, things sound different from how they really are. And so kind of peeling that back so we can actually just get a bunch of the stuff that's actually driving the behavior to be out in the open is 90% of what I need to do to solve these things typically.

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