Bob Moesta, co-creator of the Jobs to Be Done framework, recently published a new book, Job Moves. Drawing from interviews with over 1,000 people about their career transitions, it offers a practical playbook for career development. In our conversation, we discuss:

• The four different “quests” that drive career changes

• Why job features (salary, title) matter less than experiences

• How to identify what gives you energy vs. drains you

• The power of taking a “jobcation”

• A template for crafting your career story

• Tips for hiring and retaining great talent

• The importance of prototyping potential careers

• Much more

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Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-find-work-you-love-bob-moesta

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Where to find Bob Moesta:

• X: https://x.com/bmoesta

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobmoesta/

• Website: https://www.jobmoves.com/

• Podcast: https://pca.st/gg6goo1n

• The Re-Wired Group: https://therewiredgroup.com/

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Bob's background

(05:10) Bob’s new book, Job Moves

(09:31) Job features vs. job experiences

(11:16) Four reasons people leave jobs

(17:20) Energy drivers and energy drains

(31:05) Prototyping your next job

(34:32) Pushes and pulls

(40:01) Understanding that no job is perfect

(43:18) Taking a jobcation

(51:22) Finding the right next step

(55:18) Navigating job applications and interviews

(58:28) How to craft your career story

(01:04:04) Strengths and weaknesses: leveraging your superpowers

(01:06:21) Hiring and writing job descriptions

(01:11:20) Self-awareness and founding a startup

(01:21:24) Conclusion and final thoughts

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Referenced:

• The ultimate guide to JTBD | Bob Moesta (co-creator of the framework): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-jtbd-bob-moesta

• Ethan S. Bernstein on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanbernstein/

• National Geographic: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/

• Radical Candor: From theory to practice with author Kim Scott: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/radical-candor-from-theory-to-practice

• Building a long and meaningful career | Nikhyl Singhal (Meta, Google): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-a-long-and-meaningful-career

• The Story Spine (also known as Pixar’s Story Structure): https://www.storyprompt.com/blog/the-story-spine-also-known-as-pixars-story-structure

• Tobi Lütke on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tobiaslutke

• Job Moves resources: https://www.jobmoves.com/resources

• Why Employees Quit: https://hbr.org/2024/11/why-employees-quit

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Recommended book:

• Job Moves: 9 Steps for Making Progress in Your Career: https://www.amazon.com/Job-Moves-Making-Progress-Career/dp/0063283581

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.