It's a good list. I mean you get everything from blockbusters to sort of smaller, more interesting art house movies. Very, very hard to call but it's going to be Oppenheimer.

So yes, I can see that. But if

I was just to pick one of them, Oppenheimer, for example, if I just put my finger on one, that's me before you go, yes, that could win. Zone of interest, yes, that could win. That is, I don't think poor things should win but there you go. But then you're wrong because poor things is wonderful. Poor things actually would be my choice. Maestro shouldn't win, killers of the flower moon shouldn't win, holdovers, good, Barbie good and that's before good American fiction, good zone of interest, good, but it'll be Oppenheimer. There you go. It's Oppenheimer. So let's start with our first group of films and we're better to begin than the cinema event of last year. That's Barbenheimer. You'll first hear an exclusive bit of an unreleased interview with the star of Oppenheimer, Killia Murphy, where he talks about his feelings towards award ceremonies in general and working with the great Gary Oldman, followed by Mark's thoughts on the film. And then we're looking at Barbie and we'll hear from its director Greta Gerwig about making the Barbie film her own way or no way at all. And following that, we'll be revisiting Mark's thoughts on killers on the flower moon with it. Killers on the flower moon would be a very different space movie. The flowery killers on the moon with its striking visuals but rather testing running time. The interview I did with poor things Emma Stone and Rami Youssef, where we talked about Emma's character Bella Baxter acting as a mirror for a man's desire. Mark's review of the holdovers, which had him and his fellow critics asking why they don't make those types of film

anymore. Enjoy.

Can I ask you what your feelings are about award season? Because obviously we're right in the middle of it now and you have more of it ahead of you. You've always seemed like somebody who's very disconnected from all that kind of rasm attacks.

So how are you dealing with this? I think the only way to deal with it is to go into it with an open heart and just be thankful and be humble to the people are honoring the film and the work in such a way. So that's what I'm doing and it's wonderful to meet all these other, that's the kind of high point from here. The bonuses, meeting all these other filmmakers and all these other actors. Because I think it's been a very strong year for film and getting the chat to them about their work. I've enjoyed that and I have to say I'm enjoying it much more than I expected to.

Gary Oldman was on the show a while back to it. He came in to promote slow horses and various other things. And I think it was the first time that Opp and I would be mentioned on this podcast because he said he'd gone to America for a day. And when I get to his sequence in the movie, he really just turned up for the day. I mean it's such a fantastic scene and you've worked with Gary Oldman before. Of course. Can I just ask you about that though? Is that right? That he was just there for like 24 hours and then he came back? Yes. We

only had Gary for a day on the film. He played Truman and I remember we had a location for the Oval Office and then we lost that location for whatever reason. So they had to frantically get a Oval Office set out of storage somewhere from one of those American TV shows and put it all together, build a whole thing, get it up, get it painted, get it lit in time for Gary's arrival on set. And you know he had to go through all those hours of prosthetics. So anyway I remember walking onto that set and you could still smell the paint and we did the scene and Gary Oldman just absolutely nailed it as Truman. Like he divorced the mannerisms and it's a very crucial scene in Oppenheimer's story. You know I'd worked with Gary briefly before in one of the Batman movies but this was a proper full day. You know going toe to toe with Gary Oldman, one of my heroes. So that was one of the great days. But that was the nature of the film. You know you go, it became almost just normal that you'd have one day you'd be doing a scene with Gary Oldman next day you'd be doing a scene with Ken Brannett. Next day you'd be doing a scene with Downey. Next day you'd be doing a scene with Matt Damon. It never became normal but it

certainly became routine the idea that you'd be doing huge sequences with huge movie stars every

day. But that's again the kind of prestige that Chris has. These actors will turn up for him. Did

you do, Barb and Himer at any point, did you see the two movies back to back as most of the rest of the world appears to

have done? I mean I went to see Barbie for sure but I did not do the double-built thing. I tried to watch my films as few times as possible. I went to see Barb and I thoroughly enjoyed it. We've got a couple

of listeners questions if we have a moment here. So I've done the research, I don't know if this is true but Azra has sent in this question. Before delving into your role as Oppenheimer, Chris Nolan recommended watching Amadeus for inspiration. Were there any other films that found their way into your preparation process? So is that true? That

is true. Amadeus, I mean it's such a great movie but also the relationship between Sally Arie and Mozart kind of I suppose there's a... You could say that there is something in the relationship between Straws and Oppenheimer in our movie and it was just a joy to watch that film. Watch Lawrence of Arabia as well in terms of an epic movie on an epic scale that's not quite biopic but is biopic. Those are two ones that that we watched.

In his face where the story plays out you see ambition, you see conflict, you see devotion, you see deception, you see deceit, you see disappointment. All of those things happen on Killian Murphy's face and I think his role is brilliant. My favorite scenes in the film were between him and Damon because they're chalk and cheese characters and in that tension between what the military wants and what the scientific community want, there is agreement but there is also disagreement. You get one searching, one demanding, one exploring, one exploiting and not necessarily always the way you think. Obviously also the film looks great. Wait a minute, I'm going to shut it in a way which is using the iMac format to do close, to do intimate, to do not just because it's actually for a film that's about the invention of the atomic bomb. The spectacle is kind of limited. There's a lot of people talking in rooms, there's an awful lot of that and then there's this thing about going from black and white to colour which is sort of subjective, objective, sort of one character with the other character. Sometimes it seems like it can be style for the sake of style. I'm not entirely sure about how that works but it looks good and the sound design is fantastic. There is this sort of repetitive thing about the feet stamping on the floor as applause which then matches into the sound of a rumble and the sound of the earth kind of being almost knocked off its axis by what's happening. I think it is a really, really good film. I don't know that it emotionally impacted on me as much as I wanted it to and I have often found that with, no, I mean like Interstellar is very, very emotional and I think it, I think Oppenheimer is really good and really impressive. It is a three hour film which is, it's quite a hard-o-ask for an audience. As I said, there is a lot of people talking in rooms. It is not a lot of action and explosion and when you, when things happen it's fleeting and quite often it's represented by sound rather than visuals. It is a character study, political history, really and it's the weight of it rests on Killian Murphy's face. Does the story start with Margot Robbie approaching you? Is that the beginning of your involvement? Yes, she approached me as a writer and then I

brought on Noah Boundback who's my partner in life and art and so initially it was a writing project and... What does she say? She said, I, my company and Warner Brothers, we have the rights to Barbie. They'd like to make it into movie. Do you want to write it? And I guess they said yes. It's actually hard to remember now because I had a newborn baby when that started and I have a newborn baby again now and it's very hard to construct your mindset in the two months after having a baby. You're sort of like, I don't know what I was thinking exactly but something in me was thought it might be interesting. So there

wasn't a story she didn't come to you with the story. She said, let's begin at the beginning. It's Barbie. She said, it's Barbie. What do you want to do?

And I said, give me about a year and I'll think of something.

And so that seems like it's quite a jump from from little women. And one of the things that's come up a lot in all the movies that we're talking about is lockdown and COVID in the effect of that on film production but also in story writing because if I've got this right you and Noah wrote this during lockdown. We

did, yeah.

Do you think that's obvious when we go and see the movie? I don't think it's obvious in any sort of like... Is it more on Hinge? I guess it's what I'm thinking. Yes, well

it definitely is more on Hinge but I don't think it's, I think as soon as you say it when you see the movie you're like, oh I could see why that was the case. I mean I think a lot of it is just what I was sort of saying at the top was we did, we so wanted, we missed going to the movie theater. We love going in the movie theater and I think it was part of it was fueled by this sense of, well if we ever get back there let's just do the craziest, most outrageous thing we can think of and I think it freed us up too because you know nothing was getting made for a moment, nothing was being released and everybody's sort of response of like, well they'll never let you make this. And I was like, well they're already not making movies, why don't they not make this one too? And that was kind of allowed us to be anarchic and wild. And at what stage did

you think I want to direct this? You know I find I can write it but really this is my film.

After the script was right, I mean for me it's once we had the script that was when I wanted to direct it because for me that's the, I think the idea of directing a Barbie movie wasn't that interesting to me, it was directing this Barbie movie and it made it very simple in a way because if they didn't want to do it then I didn't need to make a Barbie movie. So I felt less pressure maybe than you might if you really wanted to just do any Barbie movie but when it came down to changing stuff for making things different it was really like, well I don't need to do this if you don't want to do it this way I don't have any interest in it. And so that was kind of, I think it emboldened everybody. Now obviously the Barbie movie had

been in development for ages, there was a previous incarnation that Anne Hathaway was down to doing and that didn't happen because it went from Sony to Warners. And then Margot, I think Margot Robbie is perfect for this role obviously she's a producer as you say said there. She's so perfect that there's even a gag in the narration about how perfect she is for the role that the film gets away with because it's such a perfect role. And I think that the the smartness of it is that it manages to have its cake and eat it. It manages to celebrate and satirize and deconstruct the Barbie mythology. And at the end of it you come out actually feeling warm to us and I say that as somebody who is a huge fan of the Todd Haynes film which is absolutely about the problems of the way in which the Barbie-ization of the real world has lethal consequences. I think a lot of people have talked about how funny Ryan Gosling is. Ryan Gosling is really funny. I mean there's a sequence where, and when you go and see it, there's a sequence where he is very brief saying where he is talking to a doctor and he is assuming that he can also become a doctor because he's a man. He is very, very funny. Because he's discovered the patriarchy and the sequence in which men then decide that they would sit down and I'll play my guitar at you. If the use of the word at is really great. But I think what's it's easy to understate how good Margot Robbie is. Yes, Ryan Gosling is great and I've seen a couple of reviews said you know Ryan Gosling still says no he's very good. But the film works because Margot Robbie is absolutely on it in that role and having the smarts to get on Greta Gerwig and obviously as you said the script with Greta Gerwig and Noah Baumbeck I thought was meta in exactly the way that you want that kind of script to be meta. I thought it was funny. I like, I enjoyed the songs. I mean, I've enjoyed the songs very much. I thought the design was absolutely terrific. I mean you come out, you're retiners, everything's gone pink. There are loads of cinematic gags. There are loads of things jokes about the godfather and jokes about. And in that clip was a matrix joke. Yeah, there's a matrix. Exactly. There's the red pill stuff. There's the thing about the Justice League Director's Cup. But the thing is when you ask who's it for, it's not one of those movies because, oh well, I mean it's one thing a movie critic going, well I really like it because actually it's got all these really smart references throughout the godfather and all that sort of stuff. Okay, fine. But I can imagine it playing to exactly the same people that like Barbie Swan Lake because it's, you know, because it's fun. And it's, it's just on the right side of, of, you know, some of the humor, it just sides right sides right up to the edge of what you can get away with and still be a kind of mainstream movie. I, hey, I was really pleasantly impressed and surprised. I laughed and I, and then, and you and I both came out I think with the spring and with our arches lifted.