Is There Consciousness in Computer Programming?

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We have one instance in nature where we know with a very high degree of confidence that there is conscious inther life. And that is for biological organisms that metabolize. If you go to silicom, it's a completely different substrait. The simulation is not the thing simulated. We never make this mistake unless it comes to consciousness. It's really eculiar. i presume you could just take this out infinitely, and you'd still never, at some point reach a number in which you'd say, there, that's where conscious awareness begins. Is that your point correct?

In this expansive conversation, Michael Shermer speaks with Bernardo Kastrup, the executive director of Essentia Foundation. His work has been leading the modern renaissance of metaphysical idealism, the notion that reality is essentially mental. He has a Ph.D. in philosophy (ontology, philosophy of mind) and another Ph.D. in computer engineering (reconfigurable computing, artificial intelligence). Shermer and Kastrup discuss: materialism, idealism, dualism, monism, panpsychism, free will, determinism, consciousness, the problem of other minds, artificial intelligence, out of body and near-death experiences, model dependent realism, and the ultimate nature of reality.