The Role of Pain and Dopamine in Learning and Motivation

How do you reach the goal of a balanced brain? What will the future of mental health treatments look like, and how do we find the line between psychology and physiology? 

Camilla Nord leads the Mental Health Neuroscience Lab at the University of Cambridge and is the author of the new book, The Balanced Brain: The Science of Mental Health, which explores several scientific developments that are revolutionizing the way we think about mental health, showing why and how events—and treatments—can affect people in such different ways.

Camilla and Greg discuss how phobias, immune responses, and learning intertwine, painting a picture of a brain that wields a direct influence on our physical states. They also examine the role of dopamine, unveiling its true colors in motivation and the intricate dynamics of mental health treatments from Cognitive Behavior Therapy to the uncharted territories of psychedelics and chore therapy. And finally Camilla lays out her view of the shifting landscape of mental health research. 

*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*

Episode Quotes:

Brain disruptions happen in the brain, whether neurological or physiological 

05:21: If you look at the history of psychiatry, lots of conditions that are now considered neurological conditions, because we understand to some degree their physiological basis, something like epilepsy, were not long ago called psychiatric conditions because we didn't. And it's sort of like every time we understand the basis of a brain disorder, it gets sucked up into a different category, into this neurology category. When in reality, these are all brain disorders that we have a better or worse understanding of the origin for. And often, we know less about neurological disorders than people might think. And we might know more about psychiatric disorders than people might think, but they are all disruptions happening in the brain. 

Awareness isn’t enough to fix mental health

36:58: Mental health is something that we all experience. Mental illness is not; it is something that some of us experience sometimes. In those times, it's critical to get those people the resources and treatments that they need. And sometimes, mental health awareness campaigns get in the way because it makes something like anxiety seem like a universal phenomenon, rather than anxiety disorders as a specific phenomenon that some people really suffer from and need help for.

Brain disruptions happen in the brain, whether neurological or physiological

32:05: I think often, one assumption is that dopamine just feels good. And whenever you experience something that kind of feels good, that must be dopamine. That's actually a mischaracterization of dopamine…[32:30] Dopamine, what it really is closer to is when you want something, when you're motivated to get something. And then it also is, of course, involved in how you learn about that thing. So it has a couple of different functions, different roles in the brain. But the motivational role of dopamine is a really fascinating one because it means you could be motivated to get something that isn't even necessarily pleasurable.

Unmasking dopamine

30:21: I think if you asked people who experience pain, they would say the optimal amount of pain is zero. But that's because we forget just how much we've learned about the world through pain. So if you look at a toddler in pain at some point every single day, and that's how they learn what things not to do so that they don't injure themselves, so they don't walk into a table, so they, you know, catch themselves when they fall over and don't just smash their face, so adapt to the world, they fit themselves in the world, partially via those painful experiences.

Show Links:

Recommended Resources:

• Hedonia and Eudaimonia
• Amy Edmondson
• Bayesian statistics
• Placebo
• Dr. Caitlin Hitchcock
• Bipolar disorder

Guest Profile:

• Faculty Profile at the University of Cambridge
• Mental Health Neuroscience Lab
• LinkedIn
• Social Profile on X
• Psychology Today Profile

Her Work:

• The Balanced Brain: The Science of Mental Health
• Google Scholar Page
• ResearchGate