Outro

Susie Wiles is widely credited as being the mastermind behind Donald Trump’s successful presidential campaign last year. The White House Chief of Staff, referred to by the president as the “most powerful woman in the world”, is the gatekeeper to the Oval Office and a crucial figure in delivering Trump’s national agenda.

She also rarely speaks to the media, making her an elusive figure in the president’s top team despite her significant influence. But in a series of interviews for Vanity Fair, she refers to Donald Trump as having an “alcoholic’s personality”, describes JD Vance as a “conspiracy theorist” and Elon Musk as an “odd, odd duck”. The White House has described the articles as a “framed hit piece” and accused Vanity Fair of taking statements out of context.

In today’s podcast, Justin and Anthony go through some of the most revealing lines from the interviews, and speak to the journalist who sat down with Susie Wiles - Chris Whipple - to find out why he thinks Wiles wanted to speak with him, and how he responds to White House criticism of the interviews.

HOSTS: • Justin Webb, Radio 4 Presenter • Anthony Zurcher, North America Correspondent

GUEST: Chris Whipple, Journalist and author of several White House books, including Uncharted: How Trump Beat Biden, Harris, and the Odds in the Wildest Campaign in History

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This episode was made by George Dabby with Alix Pickles. The technical producer was Michael Regaard. The series producer is Purvee Pattni. The senior news editor is Sam Bonham.

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