Activism Meets Authoritarianism in Egypt

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In this video, the discussion centers around the 'March to Gaza,' a protest that gathered over 4,000 activists from around the globe aiming to demand the opening of Gaza's Rafah border. Despite their efforts, the protest was quashed by Egyptian authorities, highlighting significant cultural misunderstandings and political miscalculations. The video delves into the history of the region, the motivations and perspectives of various involved parties, and the broader geopolitical context, including the complicated relationships between neighboring countries and the people of Gaza. The narrative challenges common perceptions, offering a detailed analysis of the event and its implications.

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Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. I'm excited to be here with you today. Today we are gonna be talking about the infamous march to Gaza. No. That so many hilarious visit videos have come out on of like these woke people being whipped by like Egyptian children not understanding, make these like impassion please to like Egyptian, like police, like

Speaker 4: You do have a choice.

You

Speaker 5: are humans. We are here for humanity. You are part of humanity. You are my brother.

Simone Collins: help your Islamic brothers.

Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. And the narrative that has come out on the right. These people just don't understand the sentiment in Egypt. These people just don't understand, you know, like they, they assume a sort of pan Muslim you know, identity, identity. , And because of this, because of this narrow progressive understanding, they did this incredibly foolish thing where they thought they were gonna get all the way to Gaza.

And obviously that was never a possibility. It

Simone Collins: seems like they did no coordination with the Egyptian government. 'cause most of the resistance seems to be indeed led by police and government. Yeah. So

Malcolm Collins: we're gonna come at this with a, this is one of those instances where if you're in a right wing media bubble you are being misinformed.

Mm-hmm. About what actually happened.

Mm-hmm.

I'm not gonna say that it doesn't make them look stupid but they did, for example, coordinate with the Egyptian government or at. And the Egyptian government didn't get back to them. They didn't tell them all this was gonna happen. Oh, okay.

Simone Collins: That then it doesn't count.

That does not count. They basically

Malcolm Collins: an ambush for them. They should have known that this ambush would be laid, and we'll get to why they should have known this.

Okay.

Mostly it has to do with the number of governments that, that have been destabilized by allowing Gazans to come in the time that Hamas blew up the wall between Egypt and Gaza, and like half a million to a million people flooded into Egypt and caused major disruptions in murder waves and stuff like this.

The people of Gaza are very murdery. You know, whenever a country takes them in it's usually a few years before mass deaths start.

If you're wondering why they so persistently end up revolting against the countries that took them in and housed them and gave them aid and trying to kill their leadership or trying to kill other people within the country. A lot of this, and I wanna point out I say this without judgment, has to do with how they contextualize the concept of death.

And I'd say, I say this without judgment because within my own family and culture, we have a unique contextualization of death. You know, we believe that you're not supposed to overly indulge in it. You're not supposed to let it emotionally affect you. And so, you know, I, I've got to be accepting of how other people are deviant in how they contextualize something like death, while also accepting the practical implications of these differences, specifically the people of Gaza. As you'll see in this video here of this mother , her two of her kids just died and she is cheering and looks like it's the happiest she's been in her entire life. And she's got a bunch of other women, some of whom presumably had kids who died as well, who are also very excited.

She's talking about how she's hoping that her grandkids also die soon. And the reason is, is because she believes that Eve. In a war against, you know, whether it's Jews or Muslims who believe something a little different from them, if they get killed in one of these wars, it's an auto path to heaven.

And because of that it is the most desirable life path. So if they settle down in a country and find peace and stability, and yet this part of their culture isn't eradicated, they have a strong motivation to create revolutions just due to their culture. And you can say, well, then we should eradicate their culture.

And it's like, well then one that's cultural genocide and two, what does that even look like? Like are you saying you wanna separate the kids from the parents and then raise them in like separate boarding schools so they don't build this concept? Like, it's not like the concept is out of line with their religious beliefs.

Well, many Muslims don't relate to death this way. This isn't the only region of the world. World where Muslims relate to death this way. They're just more extreme than any other Muslim group. And so I think to say that like, we have the right to erase this is wrong. But I also think it's understandable why other countries I.

Do not want to take them in and why they keep revolting and refusing common sense peace deals when Israel offers it to them because that's not what they want. What they want is war and the opportunity to die.

Gaza Mom: شهداء لا ولا ولد وأفتخر فيهم،

والحمد لله أجرنا بمنا يقلبنا خيرا منها، ونتنياهو مستعدين أن نضحي ايضا وايضا وايضا ال خذ من دمائنا وأرواحنا وأولادنا، وأيضا لفاد مستعدين هؤلاء سبيل الله. الله اكبر ولله الحمد لله الحمد الحمد لله، وهذه فكري كل الشهداء.

Speaker 2: الحمد لله الله اكبر ولله الحمد لله الحمد.

لماذا؟

Gaza Mom: لماذا؟ لأن أولادي في الجنة وهم إن شاء الله رب العالمين، شرف.

Malcolm Collins: It also helps explain when people are like, how is Hamas, you know, getting people to give them their babies to like put it potential sites where they're gonna be missile.

And if you see this woman and how she's like, oh, I can't wait till my grand babies die. You would see. How within a portion of the population, and I'm noticing here, I'm not saying everyone in a population is like this. You don't need everyone in a population to have this perspective. If you have, you know,

3%.

of the population has this perspective, that's enough to almost inevitably lead to a revolt.

So here you might be saying, okay, well almost every time they're taken into a Jewish majority country or a Muslim majority country, they start trying to kill people. Why don't we just take them into Western countries? Right. Well, Denmark attempted that in 1992, they took in 321 individuals 204 of the 321 refugees.

64% had been convicted of a crime by 2019. And that's defined as serving serious fine or jail time and excluded traffic violations

descendants. Okay. So you can be like, okay, well this is just a first generation, well, no it's not. Of the next generation, 34%, ha. Who were born in Denmark. Also had been convicted of a crime by 2019. And keep in mind, like that's including the ones who are too young to have committed a crime. I would note here when you're contrasting this 64% conviction rate if you look at only men in Denmark, the conviction rate is only 2%.

And that's if you're looking at the highest crime demographic, 15 to 2064. And then if you're like, okay, well at least they're not an enormous strain on the state. Well, it turned out that by 2011, 82% of the group was on some form of public support.

So essentially even intergenerationally, they just become parasites of the state. In terms of employment if you search for immigrants by Lebanon, which is often where the Palestinian lab immigrants were categorized, so keep in mind this isn't like as concentrated as sample set. In Denmark, only 43% of the men and 23% of the women aged 30 to 60 were employed.

So less than even 50% of the men , and almost none of the women.

and if you want to come to me to be like, well, are you saying that they can't change or they can't improve? And I'm like, I'm not saying that. All I'm saying is the stats, when they've gone to these countries, they started killing people. When they've gone to these countries, they've become an enormous drain on state resources.

So first when people say gazans are poor and live in poverty because Israel, is doing all these horrible things to them, , I'd point out that even in environments like Denmark, , we see the same thing and we see similar behavioral patterns., press F to doubt also.

I'm not saying this is in their nature. I'm not saying this is a, you know, an inevitability of who they are. I'm saying this is what has happened every time.

And with that history, I'm not going to sit here and pressure other states to take a population that has repeatedly victimized the populations of states that have done kindnesses to them in the past.

But it, it helps understand why, while the people. Across the Middle East, support you know, the, the quote unquote like Palestinian. Cause governments across the Middle East want nothing to do with these populations and are actually quite terrified of them.

And, and view,, I'd be like, I have a lot of friends who are like, I call them, I guess you could say, like elitist or, or power player, like, Muslim types , in like Middle Eastern environments. And behind closed doors the general vibe or, or conversation is Israel's doing the world a favor right now.

And they want. They, they want the most extreme outcome to be the outcome that happens. And they are trying to pressure Israel actually into a position where that's what ends up happening. Huh. Without it looking like that, that's what they're doing to their people. Because no, keep in mind, like Goins have tried to assassinate like multiple heads of state in the past.

Like if you are a head of state in the Middle East this is like, a, a, a band of like agitators and assassins from your perspective.

Mm-hmm.

And so you wanna play both sides while geopolitically doing what you can to achieve a certain outcome. So one is understanding why this happened, understanding what the protesters understood and what they didn't understand, because it was clear they didn't understand this.

They didn't understand how much and, and why the Egyptian government was just not even gonna begin to allow them to protest. Mm-hmm. But another thing that we often get wrong is this was not. Even a majority Western or woke audience. The, the caravan actually had multiple factions with some of them coming from Islamic majority countries.

Like Tunisia.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yes. Right. What was with this, I saw that there was this big Tunisian contingent, but why?

Malcolm Collins: Hmm. They never got outta Tunisia, by the way, and we'll get into why that happened as well. , Oh, before I get further, we've also gotta talk about like, the hypocrisy of all of this.

For example, a leading figure in this, who we'll see throughout, this is an Irish politician who is gay and has a husband and removed all of that and the pride flags from his social media before going to Egypt, which I think sort of shows this. Understanding that he's fighting for people who would have him killed and imprisoned.

Well this is,

Simone Collins: this is something that I do wanna explore too though, that, I mean, we're talking about over 4,000 activists from more than 80 countries. And you know, these, that this is, it's a lot, you know, people are flying from between five hours to over 20 hours to get to this. They're spending a lot of money to do this.

I it's hard to get anyone to come out and, and do some things. Yeah. And they ended up

Malcolm Collins: getting like left in the hot sun to get terrible sunburns

Speaker 6: We have just been violently dragged into the buses here at the first checkpoint.

Malcolm Collins: being,

Simone Collins: and I, I think they, you know, most of them weren't shocked by this. They kind of expected to be met with resistance. And that was part of the, like no, they, it's a feature outta bug No.

To

Malcolm Collins: be met. Was it US or UK style resistance? Mm. Not Egyptian style resistance. Okay,

Simone Collins: fair, fair, fair on that. But they, they knew the risks. I still think it's really notable that in an, an age of more on wheat, and I think we've had before this many people. Are putting this much on the line, even if just their money and time to come out and engage in this and they know that it wasn't gonna be comfortable.

They're coming out with, you know, these backpacks and like really expecting to, you know, do a buggy thing. No, but they,

Malcolm Collins: they, they're also coming out with their phones for selfies and to talk on social media and Yeah. I mean,

Simone Collins: yes, there, there is clout chasing Absolutely. But again, we're still talking 4,000 people.

Simone, this

Malcolm Collins: is, this is the Riviera of clout chasing. This is the Gaza border. Okay. Was this the Fyre Festival of Protests? This was, no, this was the fire festival of clout chasing that is exactly what this was. And that's what makes it so interesting. Oh God. All right. pro-Palestinian activists rally in Tunisia before departing for Egypt as part of the global march to Gaza Convoy June, 2025.

Their shorts read All Eyes on Rafa highlighting the goal of opening Gaza's Rafa border in. Early 2025 as Israelis war on Gaza intensified in a full blockade starved the enclave, international activists organized a global march on Gaza. Their aim was to pressure world leaders to end what they described as a quote unquote genocidal siege.

The plan was unprecedented in scale. Thousands of people from dozens of countries would converge in Egypt to march on the Rafa crossing on God's border to demand the entry of humanitarian aid. The initiative was spearheaded by groups across the ideological spectrum from woke Western peace activists to Arab Civil Society groups, a coalition of Tunisian organizations, including the country's Labor Union.

And Human Rights League led a caravan called the Samad Convoy, which deported Tunisia on June 9th, 2025, picking up supporters in Algeria and Libya. In parallel grassroots networks like the Palestinian Use Movement Code. Pink and Jewish voice from labor helped rally around 4,000 foreign activists from 50 to 80 countries to fly into Cairo by June 12th.

And I love the Jews who, who, you know, whine about this stuff, and almost none of them are above replacement. You're not really j like, you don't have an invested interest in the future of the Jewish people. If you and your kids are not above replacement rate, you know, and, and, and so it's really just sort of this ultimate, I think, betrayal of Jewish identity to, you know, put the actual Jewish people who will continue to exist in the future.

It, it's such a threat. Goals and expectations. Organizers made clear their protest was symbolic. They did not truly expect to walk into Gaza. I will note here some protestors believe that other protestors clearly thought they were gonna get into Gaza. See the above section given the fortified border.

And I'll put a picture of how fortified the border is here. It is comical to think they would ever get through if they had looked at pictures of this.

Mm-hmm. I mean,

I guess it's not that they just politically pressure them but again. They thought that they were dealing with like la anti rioters. I, I don't even think they thought they were dealing with that.

They thought that they were dealing with like partially sympathetic like Muslim police or something. These people had no sympathy. Some of them had had their, you know, well, even if

Simone Collins: they did, I, I think they're much more concerned about taking care of their families and job security than they are about, oh, well this foreigner who's screaming at me in English and a translator is now also trying to scream at me.

I, they've convinced me I will put my family on the line. My job

Malcolm Collins: started with explanations of why this time wouldn't be like the time when Hamas blew up the wall and the country was flooded by Goins and a bunch of people died, or the time the Goins tried to start a revolt, or the time the Goins you know, started killing.

Yeah. Like, or the, the time majority, we'll get into all of that in a second, but like, they didn't even like address as the point that whenever this has happened in the past, Goins start killing people in other Muslim majority countries. Some even describe it as standing on the right side of history by bearing witness to Gaza, suffering the marchers plan to travel by bus from Cairo to Sinai.

City of Resh then undertake a roughly 50 kilometer three day march on foot to the Rahho crossing, camping near the border before returning to Cairo on June 19th. Crucially, organizers sought advanced permission from Egypt. They say they applied through the Egyptian embassies weeks beforehand, hoping the government would quietly tolerate the protest.

So the government never replied, and that's why they thought they might quietly tolerate them.

Hmm.

In public comments. The group emphasized that the march would be peaceful and humanitarian focused solely on opening aid corridors, not on any unlawful entry. That was never gonna happen if you understood the geopolitics of the region.

Despite these intentions, many observers question the marcher's realism. Egypt classifies a rahho border zone in North Sinai as a restricted military area off limits to outsiders without special permit. Oh dear. Dock border is fortified with concrete walls barred with wire and heavily armed checkpoints.

And if you're like Egypt can't really be that afraid of the Gazen people, like they can't really view them as like insane monsters who just randomly murder anyone who they live next to. Look at the size of this wall. Look at no, look at, look at the number of layers and look at the size of this wall.

This isn't like the Berlin Wall. This is people who are terrified of what's this is attack on Titan stuff. Okay. That is what Egyptians put up. Out of fear of what you see as as starving harmless children or something on the other side.

Simone Collins: You not to say that there are not starving harmless children on the other side, which makes me all the more angry about what Hamas does.

Malcolm Collins: Right? But the point being here is if, if you're ever like, come on, other Muslim countries aren't actually that terrified of the Gazans. They don't actually see them as that different from other Muslim populations, do they? Look at the size of these walls, look at the security measures, look at the number of treats on this border.

This is not like us where we're like, we would really prefer that fewer Mexicans come in taking our jobs. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is like. You're trying to keep out like an a like on the, this is like the, the wall from like Game of Thrones. This is like, there is something truly terrifying on the other side of this wall from the perspective of the Egyptian government.

I point this out because Gigi, because Egypt isn't exactly a country with tons of money to spare, this is a very honest signal of just how threatening in terms of their defense budget, the Egyptian government found the Gazen people. To give you more context here, here is the Tyrannosaurus enclosure from Jurassic Park , and here is the wall between Gaza and Egypt.

Simone Collins: Hmm. , They weren't, no, by the way, they weren't trying to bring in gaza's to, sorry. They weren't trying to bring in Yes. They were trying

Malcolm Collins: to open the border

Simone Collins: to bring in aid. To bring in aid.

Malcolm Collins: Like, if you look at the majority of the Egyptian population for the way, and we'll get to this in a second, they actually support gaza Egypt. Out of all Arab countries, if you're looking at the base population, they wanted the highest supports for the Palestinian people.

It'd be a win for the government to give them aid. The government is intentionally not giving them aid. You need to ask. When you see walls this big and you see a government risking this level of dis disruption from its own people, a government that has no love for Israel, what are they trying to do to whatever's on the other side of that wall?

Like what is the goal of the Egyptian government and why? And I think that that, that this is something that other people just like aren't asking. They're like, oh, they just don't care. Or they're just playing it safe, or they just know they have an intention, or it's that they genuinely believes that they'll get through.

But I think it might be, as I've said before, that they have an intention from what I know from you know, mus, you know, elite level, sort of Muslim people who I've talked with about this. And their perceptions on for the region the best , end state for this conflict.

Simone Collins: So are you saying the, the, the, the genocide call is not coming from Israel so much as it's coming from like all neighboring countries?

Malcolm Collins: Yes.

Simone Collins: Oh God.

Malcolm Collins: The leadership of all neighboring countries,

Simone Collins: right? Yeah. Not necessarily the people because

Malcolm Collins: I mean like

Simone Collins: are nice, like

Malcolm Collins: Jordan for example. Like their, their king had goms tried to assassinate him. You think he doesn't have like, worry about that?

Simone Collins: Yeah. Like maybe some concern.

Malcolm Collins: And we, we'll go into like all the neighboring countries, but the leaders of neighboring countries have either been killed or tried to be killed by Gazen rebellions.

Hmm. They're, they're not doing this outta nowhere. It's, it's not out of like hatred for the gazen. It's out of what's happened before. And, and so, these giant fences, this terror that. That apparently Egypt has around this is not, and, and I would say it's not unwarranted. I, I might have distaste for the way that they're forcing Israel into this position.

And I, and obviously I ran as the one who instigated all of this, right? You know, by, by funding this, by funding Hamas, by training them, by well them and what was it, Qatar, we have our video on how Qatar is actually the biggest like dollar funder for Hamas. And also the biggest dollar funder for our university system out in terms of foreign institutions.

If you, have you ever asked yourself why Claudine Gay said the thing she said about Jews, she's the one who runs Harvard, that she wasn't sure if it was a human rights violation for people to say that the Jews needed to be eradicated. Whoopsie that seems like a controversial saying to say to to Congress.

Is there somebody she might have been trying to appease more than Congress? Oh, her number one donor. Good job. Because it's also Hamas'.

Simone Collins: Oh, goodness gracious.

Malcolm Collins: But anyway some critics wondered what did these foreigners think would happen when they reached Rafa? Would the gate simply swing open?

Organizers insist that they were not naive. One activist told the ap, we do not expect to be allowed into Gaza, acknowledging they might only hold a protest at the checkpoint. Nonetheless, this strategy banked on moral spectacle. If thousandths march, perhaps Egypt to leadership, which officially synthesizes with God.

Again, I said they officially synthesize, so why no aid?

Mm-hmm.

Would relent or world opinion would force a breakthrough in hindsight, this gamble on goodwill that ignored some of the hard reality of regional geopolitics as the marchers would soon discover. So, again, i i, I note here for me, the biggest thing on the ground for anyone who's like, Malcolm, you're exaggerating, I mentioned this above, but just like, seriously, seriously, seriously.

I want people to think about this. You are exaggerating how scared the other governments in this region are, or how much they fear the people of Gaza. As a cultural group look at these fortifications. I, I don't think I've seen fortifications this intense standing on any border on earth. These dwarf, what I saw on the North Korean to South Korean border these dwarf what I saw.

Now, those, that's a heavily mined area, so it's not really comparable. Okay? But the, this, there is just these dwarf, the Berlin Wall, for example. This is, this is a clearly put up, and it's not like the, the fortifications on the Israeli border, which were actually fairly modest compared to the ones on the Egyptian border.

I think because the Israelis were fairly complacent about this, partially and they wanted to look like good guys. So they didn't actually put them in a cage. Whereas the other neighbors are like, no, no, no, no. This is a cage. This is a cage, like the Tyrannosaurus cage in Jurassic Park. Like if you were trying to judge the dangerousness of the dinosaur, we have tyrannosaurus level cage here.

Simone Collins: So in other words, this utter failure of the march on Gaza, the Fyre Festival of Protests could have been. Avoided if the 4,000 plus people who decided to join thought a little bit more about what the leadership of surrounding nations felt about more porous borders with Gaza?

Malcolm Collins: No. I think they knew what they felt.

I think that they thought they

Simone Collins: still went for clout. They just thought that it would be easier.

Malcolm Collins: No, what they thought because they had gotten use to the way the United States handles protests,

Simone Collins: uhhuh,

Malcolm Collins: that their protests or UK handles protests or Norway handles protests, that their protests would be handled like the protests in those countries.

Mm. Or at the very most, like the protests in LA and the United States. Right.

Simone Collins: He mainly sort of like, I guess Greta Thunberg made them more smart. Approach

Malcolm Collins: by choosing, by getting, by getting, by getting caught by the Israelis.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And they gave her

Malcolm Collins: sandwiches and they, they kept them safe. They met her and kept her, and she couldn't even think when they're like, what horrors did you undergo?

And she's like, I don't even want to talk about it. Well, yeah, of course she wants to talk about it.

Simone Collins: Well, no, no, no. I mean, she, she emphasized that nothing, and this is the, the, the, the talking point of everyone who's being interviewed is what they're experiencing comes nothing close to what those in Gaza are experiencing.

I don't disagree. But. She, I mean the, the primary indignity that she suffered was that they were stopped from doing this. She really didn't have anything else she could say.

Malcolm Collins: The she's ignoring is, she was sailing into an Egyptian set up beforehand, exclusion zone. And the Egyptians would have the, the Israelis literally saved her from what happened to these other protestors.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Honestly. Yeah. She was so lucky. She was so lucky. They, she was so lucky

Malcolm Collins: that the Israelis went out and saved her. Yeah. Actually she didn't

Simone Collins: have a complaint about them, was that they were, they were not allowed to leave the boat after the, the, the, the,

Malcolm Collins: the that she wouldn't even watch the videos of what happened on the day was so like gross to me, like willfully keeping yourself ignorant.

She, I mean, she must have watched hundreds of videos of atrocities on the other side, but she wouldn't watch a single video of what was happening to the hostages.

Simone Collins: Oh, on October 7th. Yeah. I thought she did

Malcolm Collins: watch. She didn't watch. No, she refused to watch any of them. She has no idea. Like apparently she's never seen any videos of what happened on October 7th, and she tediously, refuses to watch any That's because she considers them propaganda.

It's not odd. It's leftist, leftist. See, one side is evil, one side is good. Don't, don't blur your mind with the gray morality or anything like that. You know, don't, you know, bother yourself with what's currently happening to the hostages.

Mm-hmm.

Anyway is rival arrival in Cairo. So we're gonna go to the timeline now.

The international activists began landing in Cairo around June 11th to 12th, 2025, and immediately ran into resistance. Egyptian authorities had gotten wind to the plans and launched a preemptive crackdown. Dozens of known activists were detained upon arrival at Cairo Airport. Questions and put on the neck flights out.

Okay. Over two days at least 73 foreign nationals were summarily deported to Istanbul on Turkish airline flights. And by June 12th, Egyptian security had compiled lists of March participants at local hotels, plane codes. Officers showed up at hotels in Cairo, interrogated guests, and even confiscated their phones.

According to organizers, by June 13th, groups estimated over 200 activists from the us Europe, and North Africa had been detained or questioned in Egypt, was up to 100 more waiting deportation. The Egyptian government gave it no official welcome to the global March. No kidding. Instead it quietly instructed airlines that between June 12th and 16th, all inbound Cairo passengers must hold return tickets to facilitate expelling unwanted visitors.

D do you see how like the US government needs to handle protesters this way? Just disappearing them, sending them back to where they're coming from?

Simone Collins: I do. Yeah. There's, now I'm thinking about the LA riots, you know, and how those have played out. And also how different people are covering them. So I hear on the All End podcast that the ice raids that taken place, that have taken place are being very misrepresented that they actually are going after criminal enterprises.

So, apparently for example, the, like some fashion business was, was rated, but it was like a, a, a money laundering front. No one's talking about that other like

Malcolm Collins: protestors complaining of even like human trafficking orgs where people were being rated and like,

Simone Collins: yeah. Yeah. And so that, like, I think people are given these very skewed reports on what's happening.

Well, it's not

Malcolm Collins: reports, it's, it's, they intentionally blind themselves to information on the other side, which is why I'm trying to give all the information on both sides here. I appreciate that. It's, it's that they, Greta thornberg it, they're saying I won't watch any video of the atrocities Hamas committed.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I mean, I was just watching Tyler Bender. A YouTuber who, who means left just talking like, almost like starting to cry as she was talking about how disturbed she was by the LA protests and what's going on with the ICE raids. And yeah. I'm just, I'm realizing how siloed we are with information that I'm here on one side being like, huh, like I, this is, this is a complicated situation.

You know, and, you know, people are being deported, but this is, this is what the majority of people voted for. And this is also completely in alignment with enforcing US laws. And on the other hand, she's, she has this perception that, I don't know, we're, we're entering some fascist dictatorship. And we just have, it's, it's just crazy how differently we, your reality.

And I'm glad that you are trying to look on both sides.

Malcolm Collins: We try to look at information from both sides, and they look at information from only one side.

Mm.

Which is why we're going through this today. I, I hope already dispelled the rumor that these people didn't know what was gonna happen at all. They, they miscalculated something.

And what they miscalculated is that they were going into an authoritarian dictatorship and they thought that they were going into a democracy. Right. So,

Simone Collins: I, I, if I'm to recap here, one, they expected to get social credit and clout for going out and being seen to have appeared in person for this epic protest.

Yeah. And two. Do, do you think? I, I don't think they actually expected to get any aid through. Right. They just expected to be like valiantly arrested and then sent back

Malcolm Collins: with them to maybe send some aid or like just pressure the Egyptian government? No, but they definitely did not expect this. Okay. They didn't expect to be and we're gonna continue with what happened to them.

Yeah. Systemically dismantled removed and disappeared back to their country of origin.

Mm-hmm.

Despite the dragnet, hundreds of marchers managed to enter Egypt and regroup On June 13th, they attempted to set out to Cairo towards Sinai by road as planned several brutes and Texas carrying activists, including a 50 person Irish delegation led by people before Profit TD Paul Murphy.

Simone Collins: Now this is the gay legislator from Yeah. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Departed for this US canal Highway. Murphy was initially optimistic upon landing. He posted nobody is being detained or deported. Pressure on the Egyptian government is clearly working. I love this optimism. This optimism was short-lived about 30 kilometers outside Cairo at a highway toll station near Islam.

La Egyptian police sprung a trap roadblocks and checkpoints abruptly halted the convoy officers in riot gear ordered all foreigners off the vehicles seizing passports and preventing anyone without any Egyptian ID from proceeding. Okay, approximately 40 activists from France, Spain, Canadian Canada, Turkey, and the United UK and beyond were herded off and held in the desert heat.

At this makeshift checkpoint. Sounds unpleasant. They're being held in the heat and not allowed to move. The marked organizers reported a statement, this fire

Simone Collins: festival of protests. My God.

Malcolm Collins: And you, you, if you see pictures of, then they have these horrible sunburns.

Simone Collins: Yes. Yes. I just keep seeing these, these images of sweaty very deeply uncomfortable looking people.

Malcolm Collins: No, I mean, th this was clearly meant to sort of torture them from Yeah. And keep in mind, this is something that and we'll get to this in a bit, while the Egyptian people overwhelmingly support Gaza they, it turns out, and the Egyptian government was right about this, they hate Westerners trying to impose themselves on Egyptian foreign policy word more Yeah.

Than they like Gaza. Okay. And so, these foreigners coming in there and whining and trying to force them, they just see this as cultural imperialism, which is exactly what it's, well, I could also see it

Simone Collins: being insulting of being like, yeah, I'm not cool with this. Why are you implying that I am. Being kind of insulting, like, can't do anything about this.

You yelling at me we're what we can

Malcolm Collins: given our circumstances. But the government apparently actually like ended up winning more popular support based on all of this. Gosh. Because the, the people were so happy was how the protesters were basically the deportation

Simone Collins: of sanctimonious Westerners.

Malcolm Collins: Yes.

The de deportation and, and wow. So this is just been a win for the Egyptian government. Yeah, just a win for the Egyptian government. Just a total, because they also handled this very effectively

And in a way that really works for people who hate sanctimonious Westerners. And they've done a good job in terms of the play to keep out all of the Arabs who they also handled because they handled them before they got into Egypt. And we'll get to how they handled that in a second. Okay.

Confrontation on the highway as words spread that the march was blocked, tension spiked. Sun activists attempted to sit down, attempted a sit down protest on the road, refusing to turn back. Oh, that is so dumb. In Egypt. I You haven't been to Egypt drivers there. One of the craziest things for me in Egypt like if you talk about bad drivers, I've never seen any place or like insane drivers.

You could like do a, a turnoff from like a, a highway.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: And you'd have somebody drive the opposite way up the turnoff, like ski by you. What? Then just start going on the highway in the wrong direction. What? But yeah. Is there just no traffic enforcement in Egypt? I saw this happen in Egypt when I, I was like, how is this normal?

And I wanna say I saw it more than once when I was there, but I, I definitely remember seeing it at least once. And it was like, it reminded me of the Egypt baggage claim area where they scanned the bags. And it's so disorderly that people will, like, the machines regularly get like stuffed because people will try to stuff their bags next to other people's bags.

And so like the entrance will have like five bags shoved in it. 'cause nobody wants to wait and there's like no lines. Oh, but what I'm saying here is when you consider a culture like that and you think you're gonna sit on a road and they're not gonna be like. Carmageddon. They are, oh my, they're just gonna run you right over.

Oh, no, I, I mean, it shows a, I didn't study Egyptian culture before this. Especially if you're some sanctimonious, westerner, yeah. That just earns them, you know, free drinks for a year at the local pub. Not that they drink because Muslims hookah, I guess. Video. Whenever, whenever I go to Muslim country, they always do the the hookah thing.

Video footage described by participants shows a chaotic scene, protestors chanting and sitting on the asphalt as armed police surround them and water bottles and other objects flying towards the crowd. Allegedly it's thrown by government hired. Thugs mingled with security forces. So if you actually watch what happens, it's pretty clear that these are locals and not government thugs.

Yeah. I

Simone Collins: don't know why. Yeah. 'cause there there are, there's lots of footage of plain clothed people doing the, the more egregious harassment. You tried to do a sit

Malcolm Collins: down protest blocking roads in Egypt. Mm-hmm. They don't do that there.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Egyptian people are gonna throw things at you and it'll be a fun day because the police are gonna let 'em and, and there's a, oh

Simone Collins: yeah.

I guess that's the big difference is in the United States you'd be charged with assault and batteries. Oh no,

Malcolm Collins: no. The police are like, you go, like, there's videos of like little kids like coming out and trying to like whip the protestors having a blast.

Malcolm Collins: Because to them these people are just pure evil.

They are imperialism and colonialism. Made manifest because they don't do these types of protests in Egypt. This would never happen in Egypt. One because you're likely to just get run over. fortunately for these protesters the cops came before that. Right. But then once the cops are there, okay, well now you're open season for towns folk because they're angry that you're blocking their way to work.

Mm-hmm. And nobody's gonna stop them from throwing water bottles and whipping you. So now you're the town's local activity for the day. God. Wow. Egyptian officers did not hesitate to use force. Witnesses say riot police charged the demonstrators and the plane call agents to begin physically dragging activists into the buses to be shipped back to Cairo.

And I'll note here that one of the things that the right is getting wrong, if they think that the reason why the people of Egypt were mad about this, like the average people, the plainclothes people were mad about this, is because there isn't like this pan Muslim solidarity that these people didn't care about the people of Gaza.

No, they do. They just hate you more. Okay. Yeah. And they also knew that everything that you were trying is pointless. And so why not have fun ragging on imperialists right. Colors, right?

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense.

Malcolm Collins: We have had our passport. Yeah, sorry,

Simone Collins: I'm, I'm just saying that makes sense because everyone's kind of Right.

It's just that people didn't fully do their homework or I guess we have another issue of your theory of the left playing out, which is that people are going to make the most morally comfortable interpretation of a situation. So the most morally comfortable interpretation of how this protest is gonna play out is that, oh, well we know for a fact the Egyptian people, not the government maybe, but the people support Gaza and therefore the most morally comfortable interpretation of how they're going to behave is they will welcome us who also hold that opinion with open arms.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Instead of like. There is a possibility that these people may have a bias against us that we would even say could be slightly racist or nationalist.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. I mean, this is the type of phobic people get thrown from roofs, right? And they're like, well, come on, you don't actually hate our way of life that much more than even the Israeli.

Oh, you do? Oh no. But anyway, no, but there's this delusion, right? Like that they're on the same tide and they're not, they're useful idiots when there was in their own countries. When they come to these other countries, there's nothing but colonizers.

Simone Collins: So quote one, tourists. Yeah. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: We have had our passports confiscated and are being detained.

Murphy managed to post it with social media from the standoff, calling it a blatant crackdown on the great march to Gaza. What a sanctimonious turd. Within hours the highway was cleared. If protestors, many bruised and some in tears. As multiple busloads of detained marchers were escorted under guard back towards Cairo, one Dutch participant recounted some of his group were beaten up by the police coming back, battered, bruised, and broken.

Well, these are a developing country that's fascist under like military rules. Police, of course. You are so lucky you didn't go to an Egyptian prison. You lucky, lucky b*****d. Even as they were being driven away, some activists continued to plead with Egyptian officers. Where is your heart? One British woman shouted in a widely shared clip.

But to no avail. I mean, of course not you, you don't understand the situation on the ground and, and these sorts of, where is your heart? That is not how Muslims communicate this. They're like, that is not how they communicate their support of the gazen people. They're not like, oh, where is your heart?

They're like, Hey, we're in this together to kill the Jews. If you had gone out there and said, let's kill the Jews together, you would've found a very different response. You just forgot what their ultimate goal is. No, and I mean this very seriously. I think that really the protestors had started saying, a bunch of anti-Semitic stuff. They would've had a very different response. You

Simone Collins: really think so? Oh my

Malcolm Collins: gosh. In crime, where is your heart? If they started to be like, we need to the Jews, we need to get rid of them. We need to handle this. Some of the people in the crowd would be like, these people are speaking truth.

We might need to let them through. And it's because they haven't listened to why the average person in Egypt supports the Gazins. It's not for the reason they support the Gazins. Okay? It's not for the reason they support the cousins. Notable incidents. The clash at Islamia was marked by several dramatic moments.

Sky news footage showed Egyptian Ryan police manhandling protestors on the road, and Paul Murphy described how in the fray an American woman was in his group, was badly kicked and beaten. Her hijab turned off by police. Well, of, I mean, Egyptian agents also seized Murphy's phone midstream as he tried to document the scene.

His last message before the phone cut out said, violence got worse. After they seized my phone. They're taking a south than West towards Cairo for a time. Several dozen marchers, including Murphy, were held up in CTO on those buses as they were ferried back under guard to the capitol. This prompted diplomatic scrambling.

Ireland's embassy and others negotiated behind the scenes. And by the next day, June 14th, Egypt had released some detainees in Cairo rather than immediately deporting them, Murphy confirmed that he and a few others were back in a Cairo hotel by Saturday meeting shortly to decide next steps, he says, however, Egyptian authorities kept the pressure on activists reported plain clothes.

Police tailing them in Cairo, of course. And another roundup on Sunday 15th where some tried to quietly arrange to travel towards Sinai. Again, I love they're, they're trying to get past these police, but the we need police like this. We need police, like the police we have in Florida because we do have police like this in the us.

They know what's up. I gotta post that video of the Florida Police Chief. Oh gosh, we got this just not in la you know, we need the LA police chief saying this stuff

Florida Cop: If you resist lawful orders, you're going to jail. Let me be very clear about that. If you block an intersection or a roadway in Brevard County, you are going to jail. If you flee arrest, you're gonna go to jail, tired, because we are gonna run you down and put you in jail. If you try to mob rule a car in Brevard County, gathering around it, refusing to let the driver leave in our county, you're most likely gonna get run over and dragged across the street.

If you spit on us, you're going to the hospital and in jail, if you hit one of us, you're going to the hospital and jail and most likely get bitten by one of our big, beautiful dogs that we have here. If throw a brick, a fire bomb, or point a gun at one of our deputies, we will be notifying your family where to collect your remains at because we will kill you graveyard dead.

We're not gonna play. This has got to stop.

Simone Collins: your family will be called for to pick up your remains. Yeah, big, beautiful dogs that man,

Malcolm Collins: that man Murphy was detained a second time on June 16th.

Along with others, according to his political party. By that point, it was clear that the March wouldn't ever reach Gaza. Egyptians crackdown had effectively dismantled the protest before it even left Egyptian soil. Now what happened to the Samad? The Lan convoy waved Palestinian flags from a bus as they journeyed through Libya towards Egypt.

This is June 10th, 2025. This North African caravan of around 1,500 activists. So they were smaller. But but still very large. Yeah, it's a lot of, again, this is a

Simone Collins: lot of people to actually do something that takes effort,

Malcolm Collins: leave the house. But it too was stopped short of the border the Tunisian, a convoy.

In the meantime, the parallel Lan Corvoy from North Africa also ran into obstacles. This convoy had grown to one south, to one south 500 people in a multi bus caravan. By the time it crossed Tunisia Libya after an en enthusiastic sendoff in Tunisia, where crowds wave Palestinian flags, enchanted solidarity slogans, samad traverse, libya's western regions with the intention to reach Egypt by June 15th.

But on June 12th, when the convoy reached the city Ofcy and Central Libya, it was barred from further travel by the authorities of the Eastern Libyan government general Thar's factions. Haar is an ally , of Egypt's government, and his forces informed the convoy that Egypt had denied them entry.

Mm-hmm. Therefore, you will not pass. As one organizer quoted local officials. The convoy was allowed to camp on the outskirts of Csit while awaiting quote unquote permission, but that approval never came. I love how they just wait them out and stuff like that. It's a perfect way to handle them, be like, you just need to wait for permission.

Just wait out there in the desert and we'll come and let you know. And if you Yeah, it's uniquely

Simone Collins: trolley. Yeah, they, they clearly like, 'cause they could have just sent them away. They could have just sent them away and they're like,

Malcolm Collins: but it's a great way to deescalate. Right? Like, it reminds me of the 30 rock.

Like the pilots always say, wait 30 minutes. You know, just, just wait a little bit and we'll back. By late June 12th to 13th, Samad leaders knew they were effectively stuck in Libya. We didn't cross 2000 kilometers, all for nothing. Mark one frustrated organizer shouted to the gathered crowd in ee. Yet in reality.

They had Egypt's security influence extended beyond its borders, enlisting Libyan allies to prevent mass Arab marchers from showing up at Egypt's doorstep. So I, I found this to be really fascinating as well. It was quite well played by Egypt because it would've been an issue optically if they had a bunch of Arab people there as well.

Yeah. Instead of what's been all over social media, it's a bunch of woke looking urban monoculture. I mean, I've never seen a perfect depiction of the urban monocultures and what these protestors look like. I look at them. So sort of

Simone Collins: also strategic in who they let get far and then essentially

Malcolm Collins: handled.

Yeah. These annoying Irish guys and the, you know, all these sanctimonious turds the ones

Simone Collins: that Yeah. Even Gaza, sympathetic Egyptians would say okay, I don't object.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So, no significant group of activists ever made it to the border.

Simone Collins: Wow. So this just. Utterly failed, I guess, where you and I differ in the expectations of these groups as they were planning and coming out, and at least over $4,000, sorry, over 4,000.

We, they don't

Malcolm Collins: go too long

Simone Collins: like you thought they were gonna make it. I just, I really don't think they thought they were gonna make it. I think maybe they thought they'd be comfortably set away and honestly, if anything, that they would just go on a nice vacation from wherever they got deported. Like maybe taking off from the Istanbul Airport, which is such a good hub airport that, that's my assumption here.

You really don't think so,

Malcolm Collins: keep in mind how many times they tried to reorganize the protest over and over again. They were trailed, they were then arrested. They then, no matter how bad things got, they kept trying to reorganize this. Okay. Even though they knew they could end up in Egyptian prisons, which is a big deal.

Simone Collins: Oof. Okay, keep going then.

Malcolm Collins: Wow. A few Egyptians citizens, a few tried to show solidarity, but were quickly restrained. For example, a few Egyptian activists rallied outside of journalist syndicate in Cairo on June 12th to support the march. Okay. Only to face police.

Simone Collins: Oh, okay.

Malcolm Collins: And he hopes that quote unquote, the people would simply surge to Rafa was firmly quash by state power.

Okay. So accusations of treachery versus solidarity. The March's failure sparked a war of narratives. pro-Palestinian activists accused Egypt of betrayal given Egypt itself, portrays itself as Gaza's Lifeline Online. Hashtags like shame on you. Sissy trended in Arab activist circles condemning Egyptian regime for harassing those trying to feed Gaza.

They cited Egypt's complicity in the siege. For example, Egypt has often kept Rafa closed except for limited aid. Aligning with Israel's blockade one Algerian Marcher detained and Cairo Limited Arab bleeders pay lip service to the Palestinians, but crush anyone who actually tries to help. Why? Like, these people need to ask, why do they just, are they just meanies?

On the flip side, Egyptian state media defended the crackdown and painted the marchers as either naive or provocateurs. Some local commentators suggested that if the foreigners really wanted to help Gaza, they should protest in Tel Aviv or Washington, not Israel sorry, not Egypt. And, and that really would've aligned with the Egyptian people's view.

Like, why are you blocking our streets? Why are you disrupting our lives? And the leftists have gotten used to trying to protest the people who they think agrees with them more.

Hmm.

This has become a common thing where like, in the United States, the leftist Palestinian protestors often will much more frequently protest progressive politicians than protest conservative politicians.

They actually almost never protest conservative politicians. And I think that they tried to apply this to a global scale thinking, well, Egypt will be more sympathetic to us in Israel. Well, and that's just wrong that. Like patently shows a misunderstanding of the two country's stances. They would've found a much warmer reception in Israel.

This view, essentially take your protest to the right address, resonated with Egyptians who resented Western meddling. Even some ordinary, ordinary Egyptians supportive of Gaza in principle felt the march wrist spectacle that could have backfired by drawing Israeli ire or chaos to Egypt. Thus, the aftermath largely saw the Egyptian government come out on top.

And really all the activists did was reinforce the government's position that aid and, and traversal on the border should be extremely limited.

Hmm.

Inside Egypt, the government's firm response likely played well with regime's priorities. CC'S administration portrayed the event as proof of its vigilance.

There was no such significant backlash. So no backlash happened in Egypt. A fact that might surprise outsiders until one considers Egypt political climate under CEC, public protests are virtually outlawed, which is why they would've seen them as so upsetting and arrogant. Most Egyptians have been depoliticized or silenced under the fear of arrest.

And also, you know, when a government has this type of power, sometimes depoliticizing could be nice when you've had a lot of political violence over the last few decades which is, you know, what happened happened here. And if anything, sissy used this to burnish his strong man image showing he can stand up to foreign and pressure and maintain order.

So these people basically came in as like a. A face for like foreign pressure, even though no, like no foreign government was behind them. And it made him look like he was able to stand up to like the US and the UK and everything like that in a way that made him look good in front of his people. Like the, the broader urban monoculture.

These people sort of represented like the UN, for example, which they really do in terms of a, a, a viewpoint. Now I'll also note here that overall Egypt is very pro Gaza. 97% of Egyptians agreed that all Arab states should sever ize with Israel in protests of its actions in Gaza. Wow. And 96% believed Egypt should send more humanitarian aids to Palestinians.

96% of people believe this, and yet they still lost popular support by doing American style protests.

Simone Collins: Wow.

Malcolm Collins: Now as to why governments do not want to take in. Gazen refugees. Let's go over a few instances just looking at Egypt. 2008 Hamas LED breach at Rafa 202, 700 k crossed. That's a lot. Wow.

That's, so, it sounds like

Simone Collins: Egypt let them come through at that point because, Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: No, they blew up the giant walls. And they raced through like they, they had preplanned it. They let the people know we're blowing up the walls and then the people flooded in. If, if you can imagine, this would be like, you're right next to like.

A country that is, is known for violence or something like that. Like imagine we were right next to Haiti or something, except Haiti was giant. And somebody blew up the walls between us and Haiti and, you know, 200,000 to 700,000 came in. Or imagine like Joe Biden imported that many people. What I'm saying is like, it's not like culturally the Egyptians are like, these people are not like us.

And we don't wanna let them in. And, and so this is something that Egypt, it caused major issues. There were a lot of death tied to this. There were like, this is something that the Egyptian people would have remembered and not thought fondly of.

Simone Collins: Well, I mean if, if, and okay, a lot of people crossing the border.

You said, what did you say? 700,000? You didn't say 700.

Malcolm Collins: 700,000 to 200,000.

Simone Collins: That's crazy. Okay. So, obviously, you know, deporting them would take time and a lot of work, but presumably they were systematically deported. Right?

Malcolm Collins: I think a lot of them ended up staying, like forming. What often happens with Goins and we'll get into well we actually won't get into this today 'cause we just took in too much time, is when they move to other countries, they form ghettos where they become radicalized and then often attempt to attack the local governments.

Yeah, but wouldn't they

Simone Collins: try to take out those ghettos if indeed they are.

Malcolm Collins: Maybe, I mean, the current government in Egypt, Egypt is very effective. And I doubt many people would notice or care if the gazen ghettos were being taken out. So, 2014 to 2015, a few years later buffer zone expansion tunnels flooded.

Thousands of homes destroyed mass demolitions forced evictions. 31 soldiers killed a large residential displacement. 2023 to 2025 Gaza War. Medical evacuations, 2,200 wounded entered strict vetting humanitarian aid only. So this is like, from their perspective, we're strictly vetting who's coming in.

We're just gonna take in some wounded during the war. Now if you're looking at the various insurrections they caused, you have Jordan 1970 to 1971 attempted PLO led overthrow black. September 3000 to 5,000 people died. So this is 3000 to 5,000. Oh my gosh. Jordanian citizens died. And they attempted to assassinate the Monarch who let them in graciously giving them places to live, creating communities for them.

This is the way Gaza's act. Like there's a reason why other people aren't letting them in. There's a reason why these walls are giant. Lebanon, 1975 to 1990 civil War was Palestinian militias. Over a hundred thousand people died. PLO operated state was in a state, sparked a sectarian war, and tried to take over the Lebanese government.

So, over a hundred thousand people died because of their kindness to the Palestinian people trying to let them in or trying to give them a place to live.

Simone Collins: Yeah, that's one of those patterns of. Fool me once. Shame on me, fool. Oh, hold on.

Malcolm Collins: No, this, this more Syria. Oh, what? 2011 to 2018 Civil War Yakima Siege and insurgency.

3000 to 5,000 people. Palestinian faction split between regime and opposition. No. What was interesting about this one is it

the mainstream administration actually brought in Palestinian refugees to act as soldiers for them while some that were already in the country ended up splitting and going for

opposition faction. And this just sort of shows that even the faction is like, oh no, I need blood thirsty people to kill my enemies.

Where am I gonna find the random mobs? Oh, I'll just import a bunch of Palestinians to kill people. Which, which was the, the idea here. And it worked. Kuwait, 1991, mass expulsions and backlash hundreds of people died. PLO supported Saddam's invasion. Kuwait viewed it as betrayal. So in Kuwait when Saddam attacked the Palestinians who they had accepted into their country and treated its guests and got set up, immediately turned, traitor, incited with Saddam's regime again, oh my gosh.

Yeah, they're not exactly people you want in your country. Libya 1995 to 1996, mass expulsions, no uprising political ship under gii. It led to backlash. So they, they just pushed them out before there was a major issue. But the point being is that when you look at this, you're like, oh, this is why the heads of these countries are terrified of these people coming in.

This is why the walls between the two countries in Egypt look like, not the piddly little walls between Egypt and and Gaza, but they look like. A, a multiplicative version of the Tyrannosaurus sprints in Jurassic Park which shows the threat that the Egyptian government perceives from this region.

Simone Collins: That's I wonder, so if I were speaking with someone on the left, because it, the problem is that no one I've heard talk about Gaza has addressed this. If you could get someone to have, like, to, to this point in the conversation and say, well, what is a government to do given this track record? What do you think that a pro, like any one of these people who put their time and their money on the line to participate in this project, what would they say?

Malcolm Collins: The left will assume about reality, whatever would be moral if true. Okay. So they will say it would be more moral if everyone was equally beautiful. So they'll say everyone is equally beautiful. Yeah. It'd be more moral if that homeless guy was homeless because of stuff that was nothing to do with his fault.

So they'll say, okay, nothing to do with his fault. It'd be more moral if everyone was born with equal capacity. So they'll say everyone is born equally capable. Okay. It's, it's all just environment. Sure. They will say the only reason that the Gaza's are doing this is because they've been wronged before or because you know, that, that Israel is mean to them.

And that has created this behavior in the Gaza people. And that, that if Israel just became super nice and all the Jews decided to leave and gave the country back to them, impact to them. I, I don't really believe in that term, but this is, I'm talking from a leftist perspective, right? Because from my perspective, the people who were in Israel before the native population, the Jewish population reclaimed it were colonizers.

They had you know, under the Ottoman Empire, forcibly deported the Jewish people in the same way the Americans did with like Native Americans. And it's always shocking to me that in the one region where like the native population has actually re conquered the region they're like, no. Like we need to give it back to the colonizers because the colonizers have the right skin tone.

And it's like giving wherever you are in the world, in the United States, if like the Seminoles took back Florida it would be really bloody. Like that's what it looks like, what the left is actually advocating for. And where it actually happened in one location in the world, they were like, oh no, the reverse it.

And they'll have things. I always talk about how like there's this leftist meme of like Mount Rushmore. And it's like, can you believe this like defaced Native American monument? Like, you know, this is, this is horrifying. And I'm like, that is like nothing compared to the Temple of the Rock. Literally on top of the single and most holy site in all of Jerusalem as like a giant and intentional deface of it.

And that the Jews within Jerusalem don't even move it. They don't, they don't get rid of it. They don't, they, they allow Muslims to still pray, pray there like that, that shows an incredible amount of magnanimity when they're you know, have the wailing wall where they cry and restoration of their temple every day, and they can control this region, right.

You know? So, so I think that that shows this, this, that this is an area that was taken to them by a colonial force, a big empire. Multiple big empires. There were multiple Arab empires in the Ottomans and stuff like that, who took the region from them and, and had various waves of deportations.

It wasn't just, you know, one wave of deportation. But you know, I, the thing is this to the left. That would be inconvenient if it was true. So they say it's not true. They say, actually the Jews never really were in the area long enough. Or, you know, they, in their religious text that said they migrated to the region.

The problem is, is that their genes show that they didn't at least 50% of them are canine in origin. So, at least 50% of the Jewish population. And, and that's about as much as you can hope for, for like, going back to the very beginning of human history have been in the region since the very, very beginning of human history.

And, and to say, okay, well, you know, they, they don't wanna believe any of that, right? So they, they will just take an interpretation of all these events. It'd be the most moral interpretation, which is, well the Jews because they won, and, they must be the aggressors. And, and and they must be the bad guys because they're not the right skin tone and the people they're fighting against are weaker than them.

And the weaker side is always the good guy because that's the way all our stories work. Right. You know, it couldn't possibly be that, that, you know, that the, that they keep committing atrocities or something like this. And if they are repeatedly committing atrocities those atrocities must be due to the way they've been treated.

And, and not due to, you know, that that would be the

Simone Collins: Yeah. Or that Yeah, like this, any uprising they had or any violence they committed was in response to apparently undocumented or suppressed or otherwise k hold action taken against them. That they were only fighting back and that it was, it was framed.

Differently is, is that kind of how Yeah, well,

Malcolm Collins: I mean, I've heard what the, their narratives are on the Israeli-Palestinian, like historic relationship, and it's often mostly fictional. Is Israel really brought a number of like really fair deals to the table about how the situation could be fixed.

And when I say fair, I mean fair, where the alternative wasn't get rid of the Jews. And e every time they did the many deals that were quite generous to the Palestinians the, the Palestinians basically said, no, it's get rid of the Jews. That's what we want.

If you wanna get a great and really funny short primer on the history of this situation. Dava Hatti who does unbiased Rome, which generally is pretty anti-Semitic in its takes, which I think shows that he's not, you know, particularly sympathetic to the Jewish people and how he goes over this. He just finds the situation funny, how far they've bent over backwards trying to create peace in the region.

, He did a piece on this called, , unbiased Israel History and it's really good and I'd suggest you check it out if you like this channel and sort of the mix of information and humor.

but not even their constant tunnel building could stop Israel's quest for peace. In 1993, Israeli Prime Minister Robin and Arafat under the auspices of Bill Clinton, signed the Oslo Accords, giving the PLO recognition and tons of self-governance, just asking them to stop being terrorists in return.

After a little trolling later came Prime Minister Barak to finish the deal, offering 90% of the West Bank, many settlements to be destroyed, east Jerusalem, allowing many 1948 refugees to return. It was everything Palestinians could practically hope for. Arafat was such a great offer for a Palestinian state at hand.

He launched the second Itif father and ensure a peace despite the second Itif father being over Arafat dying and Mr. Abba succeeding him to power. Sharon's big Jewish heart still yearned for long-term peace. As a show of goodwill, he pulled his Israeli troops and settlements out of Gaza, and the Palestinians followed the up by using their newfound self-governance.

By voting for Hamas things, then got too rowdy. The PLO kicked Hamas from the West Bank and kept an illegal hold on power, and Hamas bombed the PLO out of Gaza. The Gaza strip was blockaded. Unemployment rose to 50% living. Standards crashed, and most money sent to Gaza was turned into rockets. So betrayed was Charron.

He fell into a permanent coma unto his death.

I will note here something I've heard a few times, which has always really shocked me, is comparing the Israeli situation right now to apartheid, which I've just found bizarre. A region in which some ethnicities are treated less than other ethnicities are given specific restrictions when contrast with other ethnicities.

Is not an apartheid like region, that's an insult to apartheid. In, within that, like modern South Africa would be apartheid because you know, Elon Musk, despite being South African, can't do business there without, you know,

30%.

of his business being owned by a black person. Right? Like that, that would consider that apartheid.

What we instead are seeing. Is when Israel was liberated by the colonizers who had you know, the various colonial Arab empires whether it was the, the, the Ottomans or whether it was the various imper Arab waves of conquest had extracted a lot of the Jewish population and attempted to replace them.

In, in those periods. Within Muslim law there is sort of a second class citizen status for non-Muslims, which is in a way a lot nicer than you have within a lot of Christian systems. So I'm not gonna say like this is a horrible thing, but, but Jews did live as second class citizens within that system when they took over.

If you look at Muslims living within Israel today. Who are not within these, in incred, these regions that basically say our goal is to eradicate the Jews. They have a much higher quality of living than Muslims in pretty much any other Muslim country I've gone to except for the wealthy parts of like Dubai and Qatar and stuff like that.

And, the reason for this is yes, they do have some restrictions applied to them in the same way that, like whites in, in South Africa today might have some restrictions applied to them. But they are less than even the restrictions in South Africa today. And I'd also note that , the.

Restrictions that were placed on Jews in Muslim ruled Israel pre all of this were much less than the restrictions put on blacks in apartheid South Africa. So in, in both instances it's lower, but , I'm just pointing out that it was more restrictive before this. If you don't include the territories where the stated goal of those territories is the eradication of the Jewish people.

And from my perspective to demand that the Jewish people let people who say. My goal is the eradication of the Jewish people just freely roam their country. They do let Muslims live in their country and live quite well

Which I would contrast here with almost every majority Muslim country on earth, where most Jews would be killed if they attempted to live there, either by the state or by just the local population. , You know, Muslims live in Israel, Jews don't live in Gaza. You know, Muslims live in Israel. Jews don't live in Iran.

I find it absolutely laughable when I hear somebody be like. Well, what about the Muslims who still have the keys to their homes in Jerusalem? And it's like, well, what about the Jews who still have the keys to their homes in any of those Muslim countries? They were kicked out of? Which they were kicked out of.

Oh, you were unaware that that happened. Oh, and that it happened at greater numbers. Oh, okay. Why didn't you even think to look into the, oh, because you're drip fed a lie.

So even if you personally aren't anti-Semitic, if you were unaware of this fact, you need to ask yourself why would the people who control the information sources that you get information from hide this from you? By the way, if you're wondering about the exact numbers in terms of Jews expelled from Muslim countries during that period, it was around 850,000 to a million.

In regards to Palestinians who were expelled, it was 700,000 to 770,000. And if you're like, well, it's wrong either way, then why haven't you ever campaigned once about the Jews?

They don't live in, a lot of these Muslim majority countries. And that's what makes this. Demand is so unfair to me. Oh, you have to let more Muslims live in Israel. Well, why not more Jews? Why don't you care that Jews get killed when they live in these other countries because you're anti-Semitic?

I mean, it's very obvious that these people are just anti-Semitic or that they simply haven't thought this through. I.

to demand that they let not. Not just Muslims, which they do, but Muslims who say that they want to eradicate them

That they have to let these people who say my like core goal in life is killing Jews to live alongside the Jews in the Jewish centers of power. .

That's anti-Semitic by, that's just like comically anti-Semitic.

And to deny that these people exist, and I understand the progressives will, they're like, oh, nobody could really want the eradication of another people. And it's like, well, look to history. Look at what's happened over and over again in Israel. Like clearly they actually do listen to what they're saying.

Look at the actual Hamas charter.

and I can understand how leftist can be like, well, they, they took their land or whatever, right?

Like, if you don't consider that this land was ever really Jewish, which they don't

mm-hmm.

They don't consider that the Jews were, you know, taken from their land by colonizers which they were. But because of that, because they take that perspective. They're like, well, the Jews really should have just given up the land and left Israel.

But of course, the Jews aren't gonna do that because it's not just like the Holocaust they're dealing with. It's all of the pogroms. Every time they settled somewhere, every time they weren't the majority within a country, they had mass slaughter. This happens like every 50 years for the Jewish people.

Like it's not like a one, it's not like a one-time thing was a holocaust. This was happening over and over and over and over again in medieval Europe. And when I look at the anti Semitic flareup we've had in the United States, anti-Semitic flareup we've had in the uk, I, I I can say without a doubt that this is not a phenomenon stuck in history that, that a Jew would say, look, I'm really not safe without a land of my own.

And, and we built this place into somewhere prosperous, and we took what was essentially desert , and built it into a thriving technological hub. It, it seems a little unfair to give it back at this point. Well

Simone Collins: also with apparently Hamas acknowledging that they wanna kind of keep. Keep some of the Jews around to Yeah.

Read what

Malcolm Collins: Hamas said they wanted to do was when they, when they raided and took Israel, they're like, well, we'll, we'll kill a lot of them, but the ones who are like economically productive, we'll keep them and essentially use them as slaves. They, their plan was not to export the Jews. If that's what you think their goal was.

They're like, no, Jews are economically productive,

Simone Collins: but you're actually helping me think about the whole Gaza situation in light of this protest. Yeah. And in a new light of, of this, the reason why there's such a different perception of reality despite all the apparent issues. 'cause I mean, I think it's easy to be myopically focused just on October, And just, just those isolated atrocities and be like, okay, small group of people got a little outta hand.

On the claim of this being a small group that got out of hand, it was a group that was organized by Hamas, a government that was elected by a higher majority than the Nazis were elected in Germany.

Simone Collins: That's not all of the, you know, that's not all the people of Gaza and they were reacting to. Whatever is Israeli attempts at genocide. But then when you go back and, and you just see every attempt that countries made to maybe accommodate them to be nice to them and to hope

Malcolm Collins: them and to you see that punished for that in a beef they have with Israel.

It's a beef they have with everyone and that's why other Muslims keep them near Israel because they hate Israel.

Simone Collins: Well, and this being a very, yeah, well just, just in general, a very unstable population that now is being used. By Qatar and Iran is like a cudgel to use against their enemies.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But they don't care about them.

They see it as a disposable cudgel.

Simone Collins: Right. Well, which is also, I mean, extra convenient. You don't wanna use your own assets to, if you talk to Iranians,

Malcolm Collins: Like in positions of power about this they really see them as, as quite inhuman. They, they see them as completely disposable assets. Well,

Simone Collins: which makes sense when you look at what Hamas is encouraged to do.

And, you know, they use innocent defenseless people as human shields. Well,

Malcolm Collins: you know, you talk about that, but this is their entire mindset. So the video of a mom who had her kids die , in Gaza. And she is, is laughing and cheering and doing dances. And then she says she hopes her grandkids get to die too.

What? Because she is so excited that they got to die in, in, in a conflict with Jews because that is how much she hates the Jews. And. That this is the mindset that you're dealing with here. You think, oh, my kids died. What a horrible tragedy. The people of Gaza think it's a fiesta. Like, when you have that mindset towards anyone who's an outsider, and keep in mind this isn't just for the Jews.

Like if they were fighting against Jordan, she'd feel the same way. If they were fighting against you, you can't like that sort of culture. You, you need to work really hard to dismantle it, and that's very difficult to do.

Simone Collins: Yikes. Yeah. So, but, but you can't, literally, that interpretation of reality is impossible if you are a part of the urban monoculture, which again, takes whatever the most morally comfortable interpretation of reality is, and the only way to morally, comfortably interpret what has happened.

And what they are doing is to say everything is a desperate reaction to even more egregious behavior. Yeah. And then, and then of course you're disturbed 'cause you're like, wow, if this is their desperate, if whatever they're reacting to is way, way, way worse than this, then the things that are happening to them are truly unforgivable.

Getting much truly. Yeah. And we just have to end it. And if we just end that they won't do anything bad anymore. Like when they're reacting, like in defense, we were

Malcolm Collins: put in a human zoo and stuff like that. Uhhuh, you know, and it's like, well look at the walls on the, on the Israeli side and look at the walls on the Egyptian side.

Mm-hmm. Who was really like, this isn't a a, you know, a cage that was created by one people. This was a cage that was created by all of their neighbors who independently learned it was necessary. Mm. Like, but, but they can't see that. They can't see that one culture might be more violent. I couldn't

Simone Collins: understand it before.

I couldn't understand it before. Now I feel like you're helping me understand it, which is that this has to be re a reaction, a defensive reaction, to even more egregious behavior. And if, if I thought that was true. Then I could see myself fighting for the same cause that Yeah. The pro Gaza people are fighting for because , , that would be terrifying if it were true.

It's not true.

Malcolm Collins: No, no. Hold, hold on. I note here when we're talking about egregious behavior, we're talking about egregious behavior. Before the attacks, after the attacks, there has been a lot of civilian casualties. Oh yeah. I will note that I just don't see what other choice Israel has. Yeah. Like their, their sons and daughters are still in caves being traded as slave.

Simone Collins: Well, but again, like what you see slaves Israel doing is, is what I think the, the Gaza supporters think Gaza is doing. Right. Israel is responding in a very violent and, and terrifying way. To something even more violent and terrifying that happened to them. But

Malcolm Collins: Israel would stop if they just released the prisoners like that.

That's it. Like, it's, so one of the things there is, is all you need to do is for the prisoners to be released. And this ends and this idea that you would be pro and, and Israel will not stop until the prisoners are released. I, I'm God is not gonna release

Simone Collins: the prison. They're not gonna do that.

Malcolm Collins: Which, which means that Israel will keep going.

Yeah. And so if you're like a person who thinks that you can get Israel to abandon its sons and daughters to the great place to, to be for the rest of their lives, likely if they don't get them back Israel's not gonna do that. It is real. It just won't like, like there's no way that a country could accept that degree of indignity or a people could accept that degree of indignity.

And with that being the case this war is gonna continue until that ends.

I say this not because it's logical or fair or anything like that there's a huge difference between losing your kid as a collateral casualty and a war or something like that. You know, knowing one of my kids died that way and knowing one of my kids was actively tied up in a cave, being used as a grape slave, and that was likely the fate that they were gonna suffer for the rest of their lives if we didn't go through with this.

And I'm not saying it's fair, I'm not saying it's fair that if you say. Oh, Malcolm, you've already killed 50,000 people to save your one kid. Like, are you gonna stop now? Like, I'd be like, no. It wouldn't even cross my mind. And I think while there's a few cultural groups, like maybe Urban Monocultural, people wouldn't feel that way.

I think the vast majority of parents on Earth would feel that way, and they'd feel that way about their kin as well. Like my cousins, my extended family as well. If I knew that one of their kids was tied up in a cave being used that way and would be for the rest of their lives if I didn't make a point to save them.

Everything would be on the table for me, and that's what I mean when I say, if you actually care about stopping this, regardless of what you think of Israel, the only way to do it is to free the hostages.

And so I think if you're talking about like international pressure of what you actually care about, it's the people of Gaza and not getting rid of the Jews. This is what is often the case if among like the, the base population in these Arab countries, which is why they care less about the destruction in Gaza and more about Yeah, but let's just keep this going, right.

Like Iran wants, right? The way that you end this is by putting pressure on Gaza to release the refugees that the hostages.

Simone Collins: Yeah. But Gaza's not gonna do that. Ga Gaza wants this conflict.

Malcolm Collins: Gaza. Yeah. Well, and, and, and, and Israel does, and Hamas loses its reason to be in power. If it doesn't, if it doesn't keep the conflicts going.

Well, it's,

Simone Collins: I mean, I I also get the impression that, that, you know, they're being funded again by these countries that are using them as a cudgel that don't care about. Their safety, their ability to

Malcolm Collins: thrive, or, well, they don't see them as fully human. I mean, I, I, I can, one of the things that people really misunderstand about Muslims is Muslims often see other Muslims with huge variations and degrees of humanity.

Simone Collins: Well, do you think it's kind of, I mean, you're describing a worse situation than what we encountered in Latin America in terms of just like we don't. Like this, this idea of Latinx or Latino or No, no, no, no.

It's way bigger, bigger,

Malcolm Collins: bigger. If you talk about like bigger, we, we've, we've talked about how Latin Americans will they're not, they don't

Simone Collins: see themselves as Latin Americans. They see themselves as Peruvian or Ecuadorian co east

Malcolm Collins: between different countries. They'll be like, how dare you think I'm like Colombian or something?

Yeah. Like the Colombians are like whatever, stereotype or whatever. That is not what you get. I've heard words like cockroaches used to describe other countries, populations and stuff like that. I wouldn't never hear that from a Latin America now a lot American. No, no, no, no, no. Sound like

Simone Collins: you sound like a Cuban.

Yeah, but it wouldn't, it's not, they wouldn't

Malcolm Collins: say they're cocky, humanizing,

Simone Collins: yeah. It's, it's, it's not dehumanizing. It's more like team sports.

Malcolm Collins: Right. Within Muslim countries, that is not the case. Mm. Okay. Even if they may believe they have a shared cause many of them believe that they are quite superior to the others.

Simone Collins: Well, and that's, so Yeah. What's, what's so screwed up is that the countries that are most monetarily and logistically supportive of. Hamas and Gazen are those that are literally hurting them the most. They're just using them as weapons. They don't care. That's so screwed up, screwed up,

Malcolm Collins: screwed up. Well, the gazen don't care that they don't care if you look at this woman who's dancing 'cause their kids died.

Like th this is the way they, they're like, oh well we're using them as well because they don't understand. They we, this is our easy path to heaven. I don't like this. They see, and this is literally the way they see it. They see incite conflict, get killed, get into heaven automatically. That's why they want the conflict.

Simone Collins: Their lives are not, not quite. And then

Malcolm Collins: what you're getting is like a twisted version of this that's coming through like Western media that's meant to like play to Western sympathies. Well

Simone Collins: then, I mean, is the leftist hope that like, I mean I think the leftist hope is we, we save the gazen and then we basically colonize them with our leftist culture.

Because I mean obviously, you know, the long game wouldn't be them just letting them be as they are. Then they wouldn't? No,

Malcolm Collins: because they don't believe they, they believe that because they're like , a brown culture or a bipoc culture. They don't need, like, they're gonna say like, oh, that's not

Simone Collins: the long, come on.

You know the truth. I know that's not

Malcolm Collins: the long game. The long game is to erase all of their cultural fidelity 100%. But they don't actually plan to do that in the near future. , They like have no plan.

Simone Collins: Yeah. It'd be great if that was in near, this is one of those places in which I'm like, okay, let the urban monoculture erase this.

If you wanna see another instance where we ended up feeling this way, it was when Pakistan's primary religious authority voted that it was Islamophobic to ban child marriages. And this is a country where kids are regularly married at the ages of six or nine.

Like, this is if you, if you're okay with your kids, I, all right. Okay. What do you want for dinner?

Malcolm Collins: But you've got some miso soup in the fridge. I can, so I can

Simone Collins: do miso and Giza if you want.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Miso. I'm open to like solid foods again. So a little bit of Giza. Not many, like Like four. Four max. Yeah. Okay. Four Giza.

And I'll probably eat like two And miso.

Simone Collins: No, but

Malcolm Collins: not as much. Maybe just no no tofu.

Simone Collins: Oh, like four little chunks.

Malcolm Collins: Like four little chunks. Yeah.

Simone Collins: I was trying to give you more protein yesterday. I know. You were like, I don't need that much. You do need protein though now. Oh, God forbid our audience here that you, you consume soy products.

Oh, no. Anyway, I'll start. You're an Indian and Oh my God. Hang in there. I love you. Actually,

Malcolm Collins: why don't you just do one of the beef zas and then two of the vegetable zas.

Simone Collins: Well, now we're up to five. Huh? Okay.

Malcolm Collins: No, no, just one beef, two vegetables at three.

Simone Collins: Oh, just three. Oh, I thought you said three.

Okay. All right.

Malcolm Collins: One beef, two vegetables.

Simone Collins: That few. Okay. Okay. Do you want me to bring you up to your room so you can nap?

Malcolm Collins: No, no, no. I'll come down and eat with you guys tonight.

Simone Collins: You sure? Because I'm, you're, you're still looking. A little greener on the gills. Am

Malcolm Collins: I?

Simone Collins: Yeah, I'll

Malcolm Collins: get through it.

Simone Collins: Okay. I love you.

I'll be glad to see you. I love you too. Are you still feeling the fatigue or is it mostly gone?

Malcolm Collins: It's just that all of a sudden I'll get super tired.

Hmm.

So I basically have periods where I'm feeling fine, and then after about two and a half hours of working or doing something, I had to crash out. So that's, that's where I am in recovery right now. By the way, I, I love this article.

What, what newspaper was this in The Atlantic?

Simone Collins: Which one?

Malcolm Collins: The Atlantic that they talked about. I love your quote here. If I spend an afternoon with the kids, the house is cleaner than it was before. The kids are all well behaved. They're fed, they're all dressed. They look neat and tidy. I. She told me if Malcolm spends an afternoon with the kids, I come home, they're naked.

Their faces are smattered with candy smudges. Many women, she said, don't accept this anarchic brand of dad parenting. So they cut back and do the work themselves. If we revise that and made it more normalized to have kids that are more chaotically parented in a more chill way, she said, I think women would be more comfortable not leaning out.

I think it's true. Yeah. Well, no, it is. It is. It is true. But I love your description of, of me as a parent. Just to be fair, our children just

Simone Collins: really love taking off their clothes.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And I don't put them back on. I'm just like, you don't bother. Yeah. They're not gonna get sick or something. I keep their underwear on generally.

Yeah. You

Simone Collins: don't bother to like constantly wipe their faces and I don't know what is up with Titan, but she just can't seem to eat food without like distributing it. You don't

Malcolm Collins: give them candy either. I, they're with dad and it's candy time all the time.

Simone Collins: Ooh. RFK would just shoot you on site, drive a steak through your heart. Thank goodness you, I am a child who

Malcolm Collins: grew up in the nineties. I understand the value of fruit rollups and dunkaroos. You, my friend, do not,

Simone Collins: we literally walked out grocery, grocery store aisles and you're like, our children need these things.

You're, you're like the equivalent of a, an almond mom or a crunchy mom. But like with the opposite things, like they're not getting enough processed food.

Malcolm Collins: I know. I literally, where's

Simone Collins: the red dye number?

Malcolm Collins: 40? I am you know, the old Nickelodeon zones and everything like that. That is my understanding of nutrition.

It's like they need to have more, more slime. They need to have more.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Go-Gurt.

Malcolm Collins: Do they use gogurt? Does Gogurt even

Simone Collins: exist anymore? I don't think so.

Malcolm Collins: No. I wouldn't give them Gogurt. That's too close to yogurt. Oh God. I wouldn't give them Lunchables or something. Simone, we're talking about like gushers here.

Come on. We're talking about like the good stuff. Come on. I don't know. I feel like

Simone Collins: because feasts became a thing that Lunchables must have been more beloved than gushers. To be clear,

Malcolm Collins: Gushers are still around, sweetheart. Oh, gushers. They

Simone Collins: never went outta style, right? Never

Malcolm Collins: went outta style. Well, because gushers are delicious.

What?

Simone Collins: I'm just like toasty. I refuse to eat candy.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. One of our kids refuses to eat candy. I want

Simone Collins: real food. Yeah, but he wants, wants get a unwrap it. He wants to unwrap the candy and then just throw it away. Oh yeah. He

Malcolm Collins: wants to unwrap it and then give it to his siblings.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Remember, you gotta get a video of him doing the I want real food so that when he becomes and insert his food company, he can call it real food and do real food.

Yeah.

Simone Collins: That's, that's gonna be, yeah. His right, his business.