Pre-encounter: masking, shame, and confusion

The journey to understanding and integrating a later-in-life neurodivergent identity is often filled with relief, confusion, pride, growth, and other complex emotions—all woven together in a unique, personal arc.

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, discuss the “neurodivergent identity arc”—a model that explores how people move from the state of not knowing they are neurodivergent to full integration into their identity. Drawing on Dr. Neff’s recent article, their own lived experiences, and patterns observed within neurodivergent communities, Patrick and Megan Anna unpack each stage’s challenges, risks, and transformative moments.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

1. Gain a nuanced understanding of the four phases many neurodivergent adults cycle through—from pre-encounter to integration. Hear how these arcs differ based on privilege, intersectionality, and support needs.
2. Listen to deeply honest, relatable storytelling as both hosts openly share their own journeys with masking, diagnosis, community pride, and the tricky process of reconciling privilege with disability. Their vulnerability makes the conversation both illuminating and affirming.
3. Discover practical insights on moving through identity formation at your own pace—including common pitfalls and growth points—and why showing yourself compassion for “wherever you are” matters more than fitting into a perfect idea of thriving.

Whether you’re newly discovering your neurodivergent identity, feeling pride in community, or working toward greater self-acceptance, this episode offers an empathetic roadmap—and a reminder that your process is valid. Get insights about living, learning, and integrating neurodivergent identity in a complex world.

Check out Dr. Neff’s Article on Neurodivergent Identity Arcs: neurodivergentinsights.substack.com/p/neurodivergent-identity-arcs

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Thanks to Our Sponsors: Jane & Resilient Mind Counseling

✨ Jane:

Jane is a practice management software and EMR that helps you balance caring for clients while growing your business. Co-founded by a multidisciplinary clinic owner and a developer with an eye for design, it’s built to fit the way that you work, supporting your practice as it grows and evolves. 

Jane helps with day-to-day admin, like scheduling, documentation, and billing, so you can stay focused on the care you give. Jane was built with clients in mind, too. With online booking and secure online appointments (telehealth), your care stays accessible and easy to keep up with.

To learn more about Jane, book a demo for a one-on-one, no-pressure chat with a lovely member of their team. Or, if you’re ready to sign up, enjoy a 2-month grace period on your new account with code DCPOD.

Sign up here: janesoftware.partnerlinks.io/divergentconversations

✨ Resilient Mind Counseling:

My name is Patrick Casale, and I’m the founder of Resilient Mind Counseling, a neurodivergent-affirming group practice based in Asheville serving clients throughout North Carolina via telehealth and in-person sessions.

Our practice is passionate about supporting Autistic adults, ADHDers, and other neurodivergent individuals, along with the LGBTQIA+ community and folks experiencing anxiety, burnout, and life transitions. Many of our clinicians identify as neurodivergent themselves, and we pride ourselves on offering therapy that is affirming, authentic, and grounded in lived experience.

• Website at resilientmindcounseling.com
• Phone (text or call): (828) 515-1246
• Email: scheduling@resilientmindcounseling.com

✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout Resources

If you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources

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💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground

Divergent Conversations Underground is a space for messy conversations, real connection, and unfinished thoughts in a neurodivergent-affirming community. If you’d like to go deeper with us into more nuanced, searching conversations, join here: divergentconversations.substack.com

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Mentioned in this episode:

Resilient Mind Counseling

It's Patrick, one half of Divergent Conversations. Some of you may know that I own a group therapy practice in North Carolina, Resilient Mind Counseling. We specialize in supporting the Neurodivergent, LGBTQIA+, and Black, Brown, and Asian communities online and across North Carolina. We also have limited in-person openings at our offices in Asheville and Cary. We really love working with clients who are coming to terms with both Autism and ADHD discoveries later in life or questioning, as well as the intersections of race, gender, identity, and orientation. All of our therapists have lived experience and identify as AuDHD, Autistic, or ADHD. Our team of affirming therapists offers a safe, anti-racist, anti-oppressive, inclusive, and accessible space where you can show up exactly as you are—no masking, no judgment, and no need to make eye contact, just real connection and healing. We accept most commercial insurances like Blue Cross Blue Shield, United, Aetna, and Med Cost, as well as self-pay options. We currently have openings for new clients. Visit our website at resilientmindcounseling.com. You can also text or call our HIPAA-compliant phone line at (828) 515-1246, or email us at scheduling@resilientmindcounseling.com.

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

If you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: https://neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources

Jane

Jane is a clinic management software and EMR designed to be an extra set of helping hands in your health and wellness business. Available online and on any device, Jane has branded online booking, scheduling, insurance billing, customizable documentation templates and online forms, integrated payments, telehealth, and more — wrapped up in one beautiful package that even your patients/clients will love. Backed by our unlimited human support available by phone, email, and chat (even on Saturdays!), Jane is here to help you get back to the work you love. Get 2 months off new Jane subscriptions when you use code DCPOD at signup. Visit: https://janesoftware.partnerlinks.io/divergentconversations