Working with Existing Milestones, Using Budgets Instead of Estimates, and Setting Shorter Goals

In this episode of Rework we're turning the spotlight onto you, our listeners, with another episode of listener questions. 

Today, Kimberly Rhodes sits down with Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the co-founders of 37signals, to pull back the curtain on the intricacies they faced when hiring a COO for their team, and the intuition-driven decision making they used to ensure their new hire would be a good fit and complement the team. 

Plus, how to help your company get started with working in six-week cycles, and adapting product development principles to professional services companies.

Listen in to explore Jason and David's unconventional yet remarkably effective strategies for business development and growth.

Show Notes: 

[00:00] - Kimberly introduces the topic for today’s podcast, listener questions, with a question from Justin who asks, "I saw that you hired a COO in 2021 after not having someone in that role for a while. What’s the 37signals approach to executive hiring?" 

[00:46] - Jason discusses their decision to use a recruiter for hiring their new COO and shares which qualities were more important to them than the candidate's resume.

[03:20] - David elaborates on the challenges of hiring executives, the importance of chemistry, and how Elaine complements their team.

[06:41] - Reflecting on adding a third person to a team with a long history—why it was important to find someone who could introduce a dose of healthy conflict without making everything a grind.

[08:07] - Jason shares how long the hiring process took, and what made them think that Elaine might be the right fit.

[09:13] - David shares the importance of "gravitas"—having the weight and legitimacy to inspire trust and confidence in the team and how Elaine stood out compared to others in the hiring process. 

[10:44] - Kimberly shares this two-part question from Reuben: “What's your suggestion for helping a company get started with working in six-week cycles—is there a specific time to start? And are all the teams across 37signals synced on six-week cycles?”

[11:07] - Jason shares his perspective on getting started with six-week cycles, his advice on when is a good time to start a cycle, and the one time he wouldn’t. 

[12:50] - David discusses the importance of individual focus in problem-solving and why he believes in starting with a small team to test Shape Up's effectiveness before implementing it company-wide.

[15:41] - The benefits of having the entire company operate on the same clock frequency.

[16:27] - Kimberly shares a question from a mystery caller asking for advice on adapting product development principles to professional services type companies, like public accounting or legal that work on hourly billing and tax deadlines or legal deadlines that they have to meet. 

[17:21] - Jason and David share how to apply the core ideas of Shape Up to diverse service types and internal areas of your organization.

[19:43] - The value of setting shorter goals over six weeks, rather than annual goals to increase the chances that things will get done. 

[20:11] - How shorter cycles help prevent the pile-up of tasks and overwhelming situations that often occur at the end of longer timeframes. 

[20:49] - Kimberly introduces a listener question about whether the 37signals team uses telemetry or relies on intuition in their product development process.

[21:14] - Jason discusses their approach to product development, emphasizing the importance of other factors extensive telemetry, and A/B testing.

[22:12] - David shares the challenges they have encountered with telemetry and A/B testing.

[26:11] - The value of speed, forward momentum and making decisions instead of stalling to find a perfect solution.