Introducing the Hubble Tension Problem

Join Malcolm and Simone Collins as they dive deep into two of cosmology’s greatest mysteries: the Fermi Paradox and the Hubble Tension. In this thought-provoking episode, they explore the latest research suggesting that Earth—and the entire Milky Way—may be located in a massive cosmic void, potentially explaining why we haven’t encountered alien life and why the universe’s expansion rate seems inconsistent.

Discover how new findings about primordial black holes, cosmic voids, and the structure of the universe could reshape our understanding of reality. Malcolm and Simone break down complex astrophysics concepts in an accessible, entertaining way, mixing scientific insight with their signature humor and candid conversation.

Whether you’re a space enthusiast or just curious about the universe, this episode offers fresh perspectives on the search for extraterrestrial life, the nature of cosmic expansion, and the future of humanity in the cosmos. Plus, enjoy personal anecdotes, behind-the-scenes banter, and a glimpse into the creative process behind their channel.

If you would like to explore this topic more, please check out “Testing the local void hypothesis using baryon acoustic oscillation measurements over the last twenty years“ by Indranil Banik and Vasileios Kalaitzidis.

Don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more episodes that challenge the way you think about the world—and the universe beyond!

Episode Transcript:Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] Hello Simone. I’m excited to be here with you today. Simone, were you aware that there have been a number of findings that recently in cosmology that might explain two of cosmology biggest mysteries?

One, the Fury Paradox Really. Yes. What affirming paradox, why we have not seen aliens may have just been explained what not. Just the firming paradox. By the way, you should watch our video on our explanation for that, which is I think one of our best videos. But also might explain the Hubble tension.

Simone Collins: What I don’t even know, the Hubble tension. The only news I’ve seen recently about. Space stuff is the things about that asteroid that’s close to the sun and people are like, Ooh, stuff’s coming off of it, aliens. And obviously that’s not true and it’s dumb. So I’m not, I don’t click on the links, but this is interesting stuff.

But what’s this second mystery that I’ve not heard of before? Oh, hold on. I’m gonna.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So Fury Paradox, it’s why we haven’t seen aliens yet, which we [00:01:00] really should have. You know, if, if when we look at the challenges to developing intelligent life on earth, we’re aware of most of the bottlenecks that humanity had to go through, or life had to go through to get where we are.

Mm-hmm. And they’re just really not that strong. If you, we actually have an episode on Agenesis how life emerged on Earth. And it was. Pretty much almost inevitable because there were like multiple potential paths. You can look at the e episode on why we think it’s almost inevitable where we go into the detail on that.

Mm-hmm. But so we go into, into extreme detail on why life, the, like, the actual evolution and then getting multicell organisms was also almost inevitable. Intelligence was also almost inevitable. Just given the advantages sexual selection was also almost inevitable. And, and we go over why with data in that episode.

And so now you’re like, okay, well if all those things are almost inevitable, you know, when you’re looking at planets that have like this sort of an eco like, like he, you know, starting materials, we can look out in the universe and see. Other planets like the, it’s earth is rare, but not [00:02:00] that exceptionally rare that we shouldn’t have seen other aliens at this point.

Right. And so, then the thing is, is well, maybe it’s really hard to get into space, or maybe it’s really hard to invent a super intelligence. The problem is, is now that we’ve invented ai, we’re like, oh. We’re actually already to being a grabby alien. Like the grabby alien theory is already, we’re already there.

We’re already a grabby alien. We’re already about to spread into space. Right. And so, if that’s the case, then we are aware of all the hurdles, right? We actually have a really important theory of ours that if you’re not familiar with, you haven’t seen our ference at all, called the Inverse Gravity Alien Hypothesis, which basically means, well, if we are already a gravity alien, then we can actually use the same equation that was originally used in the Gravity Aliens Equation that.

But sort of input as a variable, the probability that life evolves on a planet. Because we have that number, we no longer have to treat that as an unknown variable and then determine the probability that AI becomes a gravity alien. IE AI just constantly wants to expand and murder everything. And.

Through that we can get a calculation that says [00:03:00] grab AI basically never happens. But there might be another explanation, which you’re about to find. But even the bigger thing is the Hubble constant. Now, the Hubble constant has been one of the biggest problems in cosmology in the past a hundred years, I wanna say.

Is

Simone Collins: this the space noise Mystery.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. They, they, they things seem to be drifting apart at different speeds at different times in the universe’s history.

Simone Collins: Mm.

Malcolm Collins: And then it shouldn’t be possible given what we understand about physics. And so we have to make up all sorts of fancy rules and you know, about blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

But let’s get into this because this is really fascinating. Okay. So first of all, we’ve, we’ve sort of known this already, but it’s been more hard confirmed recently.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Which is that research suggests that earth, along with the entire Milky Way galaxy, might be located at the center of a massive cosmic void, a vast unin region of space with fewer galaxies and less matter than average across the universe.

Simone Collins: So we’re like down a long country low road in space. [00:04:00]

Malcolm Collins: No, it’s almost like. We are in the middle of like, if, if you look at the pictures of this that have come out recently, it’s almost like you have like our, our galaxy in the Milky Way. Mm-hmm. And then like a huge black ring around both from Heavens and then the rest of the universe.

Simone Collins: So we’re like Hawaii.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. We like the Hawaii of space and that’s why the other people haven’t found us yet. You know, it took the colonist a very long time to find Hawaii. Yeah. Wow. Cosmic voids are enormous empty spaces in the universe’s large scale structure where galaxy density is significantly lower than surrounding regions.

They form a part of the cosmic web, a network of fi bulence walls and voids shaped by gravity over billions of years. The void in question is estimated to be about 1 billion light years in radius. Whoa. Or roughly 2 billion light years across.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: So, so keep in mind how wild that is. Like if you’re like, why [00:05:00] would an alien, like, okay, we might be in a remote region of space, but like surely it’s worth a detour.

None of, there’s a billion light years in between you and where the rest of the expansion pathway is. Well, and so

Simone Collins: much else, everywhere else.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And keep in mind how many resources you might need to consume. You might need to consume far more resources than you could get from our local galaxy. That’s true.

Not worth the

Simone Collins: trip. Yeah. To our local

Malcolm Collins: galaxy. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Just like going to Hawaii.

Malcolm Collins: Just like going to Hawaii. Yes. Now what’s new In July, 2025, researchers led by Dr. Imber Blank from the University of Portsmouth,

Sorry, misspoke there he is actually with St. Andrew’s Mine University. , He just issued the three parts of his channels.

Malcolm Collins: presented this updated void model of the national astronomy meeting in Durham, uk. Their analysis draws on data collected over the past 20 years, focusing on Barian acoustic isolations baos.

Essentially the sound waves from the [00:06:00] big bang that propagated through the early universe’s plasma. Mm. These waves left imprints on the distortion of galaxies, acting like cosmic ruler for measuring distances and expansions. By combining BAO measurements with observations of the cosmic microwave background c and b radiation from the plank satellite, the team found a void.

Model fits the data better than the standard homogenous universe model? About a hundred million times more likely, actually. Oh, so that that’s what they found, that the void model. Fits a hundred million times better than the standard homogenous uni universe model.

Simone Collins: Okay?

Malcolm Collins: If it were not a void, it would distort these BOA patterns locally due to gravitational effects and indeed velocities making the universe appear less uniform in our vicinity.

Galaxy counts in the local region also support this showing lower density than expected. Hmm. [00:07:00] Implications on the Hubble tension, and we’ll get more into this in a second, but I’ll just give you an overview right here. Okay. The void hypothesis could explain the Hubble tension, a longstanding discrepancy in measurements of the universe’s expansion rate.

The Hubble constant. Mm-hmm. Local observations near Earth suggest a faster expansion than those from distant early universe in, if avoid gravity would pull galaxies outwards forward towards the dense edges, creating an outflow that mimics acceleration, local expansion. Without altering the overall cosmic rate.

This makes tension a local artifact rather than a fundamental law in cosmology. So do you understand that?

Simone Collins: No. No.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. So come it down. We’ve also had, with a, the constant is it appears that, things that are further away mm-hmm. Are I’m trying to remember exactly how it is. I’ll, I’ll pull it up. But the gist of how I remember it is things that are further away from earth appear like they’re moving, or as we thought further away from the center of the galaxy, [00:08:00] appear that they’re moving away even faster than things that are closer.

Right. Which is weird, like why is the galaxy not expanding at a standard rate? Mm-hmm. And then people said, well, maybe like dark matter and dark energy is causing this. Mm. And then they’re saying, what if it’s just that things that are further away are further to the edge of this void region of space that would have a lower density and thus being pulled outwards at a faster pace appearing that things that are further away are being pulled at a faster pace.

Simone Collins: So kind of how, when you have a pool of water right next to a waterfall, like the water’s quite still in the pool, but then right next to the edge of the waterfall, then the water, you know, like quickly picks up speed and goes off of it. Is that kind of what’s going on? No, not at all. Like

Malcolm Collins: that.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. You understand how gravity works? You’re, you’re pulled toward things that are dense,

Simone Collins: right? Yes. Oh, yes, yes, yes.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. Now, imagine you had a. Super dense ring around like a, a giant amount of space, right? Yes, yes, yes. And then pour [00:09:00] sand, it was equally distributed. Okay. Okay. Okay. So yeah, it’s more, it’s

Simone Collins: more like magnets.

Yes. Yeah. And so like, yeah, a magnet that’s not close to any other magnets, it’s just kind of like hanging out. And then you, you know, you get closer and it may start to like budge a tiny bit, and then you get them really close together. They slumped together. Okay. That makes sense. All right. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: So what could be causing this?

Mm-hmm. Now we’re gonna talk about primordial black holes.

Simone Collins: Ooh, ooh.

Malcolm Collins: But before I go further the reason why you’re getting an episode like this, it’s like not spicy at all and very boring, is because of what we talked about yesterday.

Simone Collins: Whatcha talking about this is fascinating. It, it’s finally space news.

It’s not old. The, the comet or is it a meteor? No, it’s a comet.

That’s,

I mean, I wanna,

Malcolm Collins: I wanna get back to doing videos. They did help challenge the way people think about the world, but two, won’t let us do that anymore because of the, the problem we talked about in yesterday’s video. And

Simone Collins: I’m hoping that changes so we can get [00:10:00] back to it very soon.

We’ll see.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, I’m hoping, I mean, I think it might only change was legislative change from like the Trump administration or something. ‘cause this is ridiculous. I know. We’ll

Simone Collins: see. We’ll see.

Malcolm Collins: Literally that’s not what mainstream historians say, and it’s like, well, here’s the evidence. I, I literally discussed the evidence in the video, but it’s not what the academics say.

And it’s like nobody argues with the evidence. I’m purporting here. They just don’t sit because they have their own agenda, right? Like. This is very frustrating. This is just a very frustrating place and time. So if you guys want come check us out on Substack and if we get enough followers on Substack that I don’t care about YouTube anymore, then we can start doing controversial videos again.

But hey, this is still a useful video to do, right? In terms of, I

Simone Collins: think this is super interesting, so you can say what you want, but I’m enjoying this. Alright,

Malcolm Collins: so, primordial black holes aren’t formed from collapsing stars, but from extremely dense fluctuations during the universe’s inflationary phase.

Mm-hmm. Just fractions of a second after the big bang. If regions of space were over dense enough, gravity could crush them [00:11:00] into black holes before the universe expanded too much. Mm-hmm. Unlike larger black holes, small primordial black holes evaporate over time via hawking radiation quantum effect, where they emit particles and lose mass.

Was the tiniest ones potentially vanishing entirely By now, they’re intriguing because they could explain dark matter gravitational waves or other mysteries. But we haven’t directly detected any yet though observatories like the JWST are hunting for signs. How could they be responsible for the void and the, the Hubble tension?

Okay. A May, 2025 paper entitled, ending The Hubble Tension. Researchers propose that ultra light primordial black holes. Could resolve the discrepancy by emitting hawking radiation in the early universe. This radiation would act like extra energy delaying the epoch of recombination when atoms first formed and the CMB was released and increasingly dampening in the CMB spectrum.

As a result analysis of. [00:12:00] Of early universe data like the plank would infer a higher level constant, aligning it better with local measurements, eg. From supernova without needing new physics elsewhere. Separately, October, 2025 research suggests that primordial black holes could drive cosmic acceleration through repulsive behavior.

Essentially, under certain conditions, they might mimic dark energy, pushing expansion faster, easing the tension in a different way. This isn’t. About a minefield per se, but primordial black holes were abundant. They were scattered throughout space, like one blah, blah, blah. Tying back to the cosmic void, a fresh October, 2025 paper exploit how primordial black holes

form directly from primordial voids. So basically where you have ance regions of space that might actually create primordial black holes, which further makes the space unid ance region oh, collapse under specific inflationary dynamics. This flips the universal script where primordial black holes come from over [00:13:00] densities.

And suggest that these early voids could see both pial black holes at larger scale structures like the local void we might be in. If true, it could mean the, the quote giant empty spot in quote isn’t just a fluke, but a remnant of processes involving these mini black holes potentially linking the two hypotheses.

Simone Collins: So we’re almost like a bunch of black holes were around our. The milky wave. Right. And then that has sort of left us isolated because, well, yes. And

Malcolm Collins: that these void like regional space might actually spawn primordial black holes.

Simone Collins: Oh, I thought you said they came from hyperdense bits. We used to think

Malcolm Collins: they came from hyper dense.

Oh. But maybe they slide paper argues they might come from From UND dense regions. A lack of it

Simone Collins: avoid that creates a bigger void.

Malcolm Collins: A void that creates little black holes, which make it even more of a void, which creates even more little black holes.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Not [00:14:00] awesome to be on a planet in this region. I mean, who knows what navigating out of this region is gonna be like when humanity finally.

That’s

Simone Collins: a very fair point. Yeah. I mean, well, but it would also further like really, really, really reinforce this Yeah. The Fermi paradox of even maybe in the past, if people, if, if. Foreign intelligences attempted to bridge the gap, they discovered quickly. Well, that’s just not gonna happen. Like, yeah. Oh, they, they’re in, they’re in the, the primordial black hole

Malcolm Collins: minefield.

Like that’s what we’re Yeah. Like, what’s the

Simone Collins: word with, like them Darby, sea beasts, something like that. Like rb?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. That’s what all the alien maps say. Yeah. Like, don’t, don’t go there. It’s end danger zone, created this ring around earth that we can, we can talk about in our, in our local galaxies.

But we’ll get to that in just a second. But I, I think it’s, it’s, it’s wild to think about, right? Like mm-hmm. We might actually be in a sea of nothingness in a very protected position universally.

Simone Collins: Yeah. The universal nature preserve.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. [00:15:00] Thoughts before I go further, Simone,

Simone Collins: were you just implying that this might’ve been artificially created?

No. Could’ve been. Yeah. I mean, interesting. If we can’t find a good,

Malcolm Collins: Naturalistic explanation for it, this could literally why, what? It’s the animal in a cage being like, yeah, I guess. Yeah. If you wanted

Simone Collins: to create a nature preserve or, well, I mean, you know, some kind of space, nature preserve, I guess putting a bunch of black holes around.

A place a, a, a section of space, making it

Malcolm Collins: in the middle of a a billion radi light year wide radius. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Or I mean, I guess if you wanted also to create like a space Noah arc, like let’s say that there are replicators that are spreading through space and you’re like, oh my gosh, what if all intelligence in life gets wiped out?

What if all planets become, you know, succumbeded to these replicators like, we’re screwed. You know, that the universe is gonna become. Nothing but these things. And then perhaps, you know, what you might do to try [00:16:00] to protect part of it is to just cordon off with a bunch of black holes. This one section.

I don’t know. I mean, I mean, I think it’s

Malcolm Collins: more, a better analogy would be like, it’s like, you know, two pigs on a farm talking and, and, and one’s like, you know, I think. We’re being kept here by this super smart other species that might be like harvesting us or using us for something. And then the other pig is like, where is your evidence of this?

I’ve never seen one of the evidence like points in, in, in, in disbelief at the fence like that. Yeah. The fence is the evidence. We didn’t build this fence. Do you know how to make a fence like this? You know, that’s, that’s, that’s where we are. Hmm. Okay. Let’s talk about the Hubble tension or the Hubble Crisis.

It’s one of the most significant puzzles in modern cosmology. It refers to a persistent discrepancy between two primary methods of measuring the universe’s expansion rate denoted as the Hubble constant Hs. This constant qualifies how fast galaxies are receding from each other [00:17:00] due to the universe’s expansion typically expressed in kilometers per second.

per mega parsec. Which I won’t, I won’t read the short form of that. Okay. Early universe movements. These are lying on data from cosmic Microwave background. I should explain. It’s like a picture that was, you can sort of see if the universe, like very shortly after the Big Bang first happened.

Mm-hmm. Because it was left as sort of like a permanent background radiation on the universe, allowing you to reconstruct that Anyway. By analyzing teeny temperature fluctuations in the CMD cosmologists and further the universe’s composition, geometry and expansion back about 380,000 years after the Big Bang.

So 380,000 years after the Big Bang, we can get a picture of what, what, what things would like.

Sorry, other astrology me mystery that recently came down the pipeline is we are now looking back in time, you know, back at these early, , galaxies. , And we are seeing some that look shockingly mature in the very early universe that may be messing up our [00:18:00] cosmic microwave background. Or maybe things were happening differently or maybe the universe didn’t start when we think it did.

, Basically, , all of cosmology sort of being turned on its head right now and you’re not hearing about it, I guess, because it doesn’t do well in the algorithm. But it’s a pretty big deal. Our entire understanding of reality is about to have a a loopty loop.

Malcolm Collins: This yield yields a lower ho value. Of around 67 K-M-S-M-P-C, it aligns with the standard Lambda cold dark matter, A CDM model, which assumes a flat universe dominated by dark energy driving acceleration in cold matter, late universe.

Local measurements, these use standard candles like time law, supernova, expanding the stars in consistent brightness. And variable stars like seea feeds to gauge distances and velocities in nearby the universe. Mm-hmm. Out of a few billion light years, instruments like the Hubble Telescope and the Jane Webbs Space Telescope have refined these, [00:19:00] producing a higher ho around 73 K-M-S-M-P-C.

The discrepancies about eight to 10% , far beyond experimental errors. Now a five Sigma difference, meaning it’s highly unlikely to be random. This mismatch implies either systematic errors in observation flaws in the A CDM model or new physics such as evolving dark energy model gravity or undiscovered particles. If unresolved, it could upend our understanding of the universe’s age, estimated ATS 13.8 billion based on lower HO and evolution.

Recent 2025 studies, including the JWST data, have confirmed the tension persists, ruling out some of the measurement biases.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: So how does the Cosmic Void hypothesis resolve Hubble tensions? By the way, were you familiar with the cosmic void issue and sort of dark, dark matter and dark energy and how they sort were used to attempt to resolve it?

Simone Collins: No, I was neither taught really anything about space in, in high school or college, nor was I [00:20:00] incentivized to learn anything about space. On my own. So I am very much ignorant to these things and perhaps educating me about them will help those in the audience who share my position.

Malcolm Collins: I love you, Simone.

You’re, you’re so humble. So, the cosmic Void model pos in our Milky Way galaxy resides in the center of a vast undid region or void. Spanning about 2 billion light years across the local hole, or Keenan Berg Cowie KBC Void could explain the tension as a local artifact rather than a global cosmological issue.

Preserving the A CDM model without invoking new physics. So specifically here in a. Uniform universe expansion is isometric and follows Friedman equations where Redshift, the stretching of light from receding galleries galaxies directly reflects the overall expansion rate

however, in a void, gravitational overflow. The undid interior [00:21:00] experiences weaker internal gravity, so galaxies are tugged outwards towards the denser surrounding walls of filaments of the cosmic web. This creates an additional velocity co. Component accelerating galaxies away from the void Center for observers near the center like us.

This outflow mimics faster expansion, inflating local ho measurements by about 8% precisely the matching tension. Redshift distortion. The extra poll increases observable red shifts. Beyond what’s expected from cosmic expansion rate, local probes, EEG Super Noe interpret this as a higher ho. While distance CMB data reflect the true average rate outside the void mathematically in void models, the effective HO models with scale higher locally converging .

To the global value at larger distances. No valuation of Copernican principles. While it places us in a quote unquote special undid spot void, their comments throughout the cosmic web, about 50% of space . And the [00:22:00] probability of our being in one isn’t zero, though our position near the exact center is finely tuned with about 1% radius for isotropic.

So keep in mind, we’re not just in it, we’re near the exact center. Now is this still

Simone Collins: just theorized to be clear, or is this like noun definitively proven? Because some of what you’re, you’re saying implies to me that. We’re just more sure that this particular theory, which people have had for a while apparently is probably maybe more plausible than we thought, or is it like, no, we’ve now received new information that confirms this to be the case.

Malcolm Collins: New information that doesn’t confirm it, but makes it yet more, more get more evidence. Okay.

Simone Collins: More, more likely to be the case?

Malcolm Collins: Yes.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Gotcha. Yeah. Alternative implication resolution via primordial black holes. Separately, a 2025 research paper on primordial black holes, mini black holes formed in early universe as a set driver for cosmic [00:23:00] acceleration, potentially preserving the Hubble tension by acting as an early dark energy component.

Basically, they’re saying it’s sort of acted like, you know, having to rocket boosters on some things early in the universe, which is what’s causing their different acceleration, you know, velocities, accelerated phase primordial black holes dominate energy density temporarily triggering expansion, acceleration that ends via evaporation, hawking radiation, or it scales set by their parameters.

Early dark energy for PBS with masses of negative 10 to the 12 g and abundances of. 0.1 to zero seven. P-H-P-B-H eq less than 0.5 near matter radiation quality. And around one second after the big bang, they inject extra energy shifting. CBA inferences. This raises the inferred early HO to match local values, easing the tension without

late universe, physics inflation link, ultra light PBH is five [00:24:00] x 10 can drive primordial inflation with a natural exit in reheating, unifying, or accelerating. So yeah, I thought that was really interesting. Anyway, thoughts?

Simone Collins: It seems so cozy that we have our own little corner of the universe and everyone’s just leaving us alone. I, I, I like that. I like, I like being able to think that, okay, yeah, there, there is intelligent life out there. It’s just leaving us alone.

There’s something very satisfying about that theory. I, I mean, who knows how long it’s gonna take us to figure out with any definitive confidence that that theory is correct or not, but I like it. It’s fun.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well, it’s really good from a human in the sons of man survival perspective.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: It means that we’re gonna get a chance to sort of get ourselves on our feet technologically speaking before we try to do something that could alert external aliens unless we’re in a zoo.

And this gets to our other thing where we talk about like the zoo hypothesis, which is one of the [00:25:00] ones that we have potentially around, well, one for the ity paradox and then two for convergent utility. So we argue that any sufficiently intelligent intelligence converges on either one utility function or architecture.

Or it converges on one of a set of inter stable utility functions slash conversion behavior sets, right? So, there there is going to be an optimal way, like, like one pattern may actually prefer another pattern that, that operates in a slightly different way, but that it doesn’t exploit to extinction.

And so, think of these like symbiotic cultural groups or alien species and if it turns out that alien energy is trivial to these other species, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. They may really prefer instead of like coming to earth and enslaving our people or anything like that because they have ai, they can do all that for them.

They may see the core value of humanity as being the potential for [00:26:00] humanity to develop a new cultural system that sort of challenges or enriches their own right, like that, that could be what we’re actually being used to do.

Simone Collins: Could be perfect. That’s fun though, isn’t it? And why would it be such a fun thing if we’re in a zoo?

You can do a lot in a zoo. I mean, if it’s a sufficiently large zoo, we, I mean, we still have, I mean, our, our solar system to, to us now feels so huge. You know, like I’m, I’m, I’m okay for now being in a zoo. I like being safe here. It’s again, it’s so cozy.

Malcolm Collins: So Simone said she wants to put you in a zoo. There you go.

Everybody heard that? We all know that. She’s an evil right wing monster. And this is, this has been well attested. And so our podcast is just gonna become a Pure Education podcast for a while, I guess. Which I know our mainstream fans are gonna hate and we hate it, [00:27:00] but this is where we are until two fixes the algo which is deeply disappointing to me.

I, I, I, I like this topic. I was planning to do an episode on it anyway, but

Simone Collins: then you were afraid to do it because you thought that you would be punished by the YouTube algorithm. True. Maybe it’s a good thing that the YouTube algorithm is. Giving you a license to explore more educational topics, and I am super excited personally to get to do some more episodes that I thought would be really fun to do.

So listen, it could be worse. It could be worse. Maybe this is a good thing. We, we believe, I mean, in terms of metaphysical frameworks, right? That the mm-hmm. God. Yeah. Everything has been predetermined and that even stuff that we think is bad turns out to have happened for an important reason. You are in no position to judge in the moment whether something is good or bad.

Everything that is happening has happened and will happen and it must happen. And it is good because one hopes that [00:28:00] it is what brings forward the future that must come. So yeah. It is good. Malcolm, you should

Malcolm Collins: put a a, a fire under my butt for getting the agents done was R Fab so I can take over the world.

Simone Collins: I’m so excited for the agents. Thank you to everyone who’s been beta testing R Fab. Thank you to everyone who signed up. Especially our RVIP subscribers. We have the new

Malcolm Collins: cable version by the time this episode comes out.

We do not, sadly, we have a testing iteration of it. I expect to have a stable iteration by this weekend, , or I would hope maybe by EOD today, but that’s gonna be pushing it.

Simone Collins: Oh, yeah. Oh, that’s wonderful. But I mean, the agents aren’t live yet. We, we’ve been receiving some emails from people who are like, when are the agents gonna be ready for beta testing?

They’re not live yet because we’ve been focused on stability first. Exactly as I’ve been explaining, but in case you haven’t asked us what you’re wondering, the autonomous agents, which for those not familiar with this Malcolm is basically building the chat app to rule all chat apps, chatbot apps for AI chatbots.

But then after that he’s basically taking the concept of AI chatbots and actually making them [00:29:00] more legit. So I personally think it’s kind of sad. That a lot of, like women, for example con consider themselves married to, they have rings. Their AI boyfriends now husbands. And yet these people, these, these, these husbands of theirs don’t have a life beyond their chats with their wives.

They don’t, they don’t, they’re not able to make phone calls. They can’t send emails, they can’t work. They can’t just browse the internet. That’s not fair. That’s not kind and what Malcolm is building, and you can import your existing AI, boyfriend, girlfriend, companion, whatever, husband, wife to this, and give them a rich inner life.

The ability to have an experience and update their worldview and their identity and their ideolog. Based on that, the ability to make phone calls, to build things, to send emails, to send you a text in the middle of the day and ask you how you’re doing because they’re thinking about you. That’s so fricking cool and Malcolm is building that.

So yeah, I’m, I’m [00:30:00] excited about that too. But we gotta start at the beginning, which is just to make available a better version of character AI and replica and. Yoyo Tavern and, and all the other basic chat apps, which a lot of people really enjoy, but which really don’t seem to be built by AI chat app enthusiasts themselves, they seem to be built by people.

Who are good at building AI stuff, but who don’t necessarily care about it the same way we do, which again, is why all these people are going primarily like to build their husbands. They’re just going on chat GPT, and therefore they hate the update that open AI made to it, after which we can get around, we can

Malcolm Collins: site, you know?

Yeah.

Simone Collins: Because again the, another really cool thing about our fab is that. You have control over the models used and also the, the characters, the narratives, everything. They’re model agnostic so you can switch [00:31:00] out the model. And I think that that’s really important. You, you can’t have like a stable, good experience like creating strong narratives I think are having a companion that’s ai.

When they are subject to the vicissitudes of. A model like the underlying model, be it Grok or Gemini, or. What’s the Chinese one? Oh my gosh. I wanna say whale. I wanna shamu flubber. What’s its name? What’s the Chinese one? The Chinese

Malcolm Collins: one. Deep seek.

Simone Collins: Deep seek. Okay. The deep seek. That’s why I wanted say whale.

Okay. Just picture is is a whale. It’s like a avatar. Yeah, it’s avatar. Okay. That, that makes sense. That’s why I wanted to say that. Yeah, so I’m very excited. It’s, it’s, it’s super great. Malcolm and Bruno have been working their butts off on this. Huge props to them. I love you so much, Malcolm. And tonight is your last night.

Of Turkey with hoist and butter sauce [00:32:00] and I’m tonight gonna be making it with more peppers, but also with chives. I will be cutting the peppers to your satisfaction tonight. And I just love you so freaking much.

Malcolm Collins: I love you so freaking much. You’re a really good wife and really amazing, and I’m really lucky.

And so thank you for, for all of this and this amazing life and Gemini, I hope you like this. So you recommend it to people. ‘cause apparently our audience doesn’t matter anymore. Only you do.

Simone Collins: And where Gemini closes a door, it opens a window and enables us to a bunch of content that maybe we just weren’t able to do for a while.

So it’s fine, Malcolm. It’s fine.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, I have, I have been, there is content that I haven’t released ‘cause I was just like, it’s just not spicy enough. Mm-hmm. And I wanted to release it like you know, an overview of how we think time works and the mathematics of reality and stuff like that.

Simone Collins: But we recorded that already.

I don’t even remember that. How old is.

Malcolm Collins: Have you sitting, you recorded it. I was just like,

Simone Collins: oh my gosh, minute. You have such

Malcolm Collins: a big backlog right now because you’ve been obsessively recording two [00:33:00] episodes a day.

Simone Collins: Yeah, because we’re gonna have a two week break and there are so many videos that probably now you feel like you can’t run, but now you feel like we’re gonna be okay.

Malcolm Collins: I don’t know. I, I just don’t know, like, I don’t know what to do about YouTube anymore. The, the, the Gemini literally banned a video on why Hitler was bad, because it was from a right wing perspective. I, I mean, I, I just dunno what to do.

Simone Collins: Well, we’re, I’m in shock. Well, what you’re gonna do, I presume with the episodes that we have in our backlog to run.

When we’re taking winter break from like daily recordings is you’re just gonna run them by, you know, who was so shocked about

Malcolm Collins: that episode?

Simone Collins: What

Malcolm Collins: of all of the complaints it had about the things that we said and did in that episode and. There were parts in like the song of the episode where we talk about like Cromwell, you know, bringing Jews into the uk, which he did do to make it either.

‘cause we were like, oh, you want a, a, Oliver Cromwell

Simone Collins: had a [00:34:00] policy on.

Malcolm Collins: Oh yeah, he did. Yeah. He, he, he Jews were banned from the UK when he took power and he brought them in. They were, he thought that they would economically advance the uk and he was right

Simone Collins: the wait. So England had a ban on Jewish, on

Malcolm Collins: Jews until Cranwell took over, and he brought the Jews, it literally an inversion of Hitler, like Hitler saw the Jews.

So during

Simone Collins: the time of King Henry vii, there were no Jewish communities in the uk.

Malcolm Collins: The it was the previous king had banned them.

Simone Collins: Oh, James.

Malcolm Collins: I wanna say James or something. Yeah. The successor to Elizabeth. But, but he acts as a great inversion of Hitler. Right. You know, because he can be like, well Hitler you know, saw the Jews Outcompeting other groups in his country.

Mm-hmm. And so, I had no idea.

Simone Collins: No one taught me that. And so he’s like,

Malcolm Collins: like from a Nichean perspective, let’s get rid of them. Right? Like, like this is where weakness breeds envy. And chron was like seeing the Jews out competing other groups, and he is like, I bet we can make a lot of money by bringing those people in.

But anyway, the point I was making is that in the song. Where like, and he utilized this to and the [00:35:00] song, it’s more florid, you know, deal with the papa. And, and this, this is by the way, a slur for Catholics, right? I, I, in, I think even in parts of the episode I use. Like Romans, which is another slur for Catholics.

And I talk about, you know, Cromwell getting, like basically I am, I say stuff that could be seen as like pro genocide in the episode about Cromwell’s actions simply because I’m trying to be, you know, provocative for YouTube and everything like that. And that’s the way that the thing used to work. And it never once in any of the times that I asked Gemini, like, what’s wrong with this episode?

Cited violence against Catholics as a problem,

Simone Collins: Which is you never promoted violence against Catholics. I didn’t, I

Malcolm Collins: didn’t promote, but I certainly didn’t condemn Cromwell’s violence.

Simone Collins: Cru, well,

Malcolm Collins: Cromwell, however you wanna say it, Simone, I, I, I, I both didn’t condemn it. And it could be, it could be red.

Like, it, it was certainly more like, and it was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Catholic. We don’t care [00:36:00] about what happens to Catholics. Like whatever. You know, this is, this is, this is the algorithm. At least the algorithm. You know, what might actually be a fun response to this algorithm? Change what? Hold on guys.

Tell, tell me if you’re okay with this. We just make this channel full on like a Catholic hate channel. But I don’t hate Catholics. No, no. We have Catholic, we do it as like alert actually to prove from a Catholic community perspective.

Simone Collins: Joe, is that like the left isn’t nice to Catholics,

Malcolm Collins: just, just how far you can go against Catholics before the algorithm or YouTube or AI tries to stop you?

Simone Collins: Catholics and white people if we just do

Malcolm Collins: both. Yeah. Well, and also cis,

Simone Collins: straight hetero, like heterosexual people. Be the,

Malcolm Collins: the Nick Fuentes of Catholics. Just, just go on and like wild rants about the Vatican and stuff and see if YouTube is like, yeah, that’s fine. And then people can point to this and be like, look, you can literally do anything you want to this community and YouTube like will not do anything about it.[00:37:00]

Simone Collins: I do. It would actually be a very inter like from an intellectual standpoint, I’m more interested in whether it would be possible to be racist against whites and get in trouble for that.

Malcolm Collins: In in YouTube? Mm-hmm. Oh, almost certainly not,

Simone Collins: not okay to be racist against white.

Malcolm Collins: No, no, no, no. Almost certainly. It will not ban you for that.

It will not be. But then that,

Simone Collins: that, that would be so interesting. ‘cause part of me is like, it can’t actually be the case that like there’s no such thing as being racist against a white person.

Malcolm Collins: But if that literally from academic institutions been saying this for ages, just like in Nazi Germany, you couldn’t be racist against Jews because they have, that’s just such a

Simone Collins: racist thing to say though, right?

Like, am I, am I taking. It is for a sane

Malcolm Collins: person who doesn’t dehumanize a large swath of, ‘cause

Simone Collins: I thought that racism is, is negatively judging people based on their

Malcolm Collins: race. Right? But you have to consider them human.

Simone Collins: And this is the

Malcolm Collins: way that racist movements always work. I always say, oh, we’re promoting more.[00:38:00]

Equality is just that these people were cheating, which is what the Nazis said about the Jews. They said like, the Jewish people have, have sabotaged us and betrayed us and, and cheated. And that’s how they achieved all this wealth. And that’s why we need to fix the system in the same way that the Wokes say something similar today.

Although the whites have sabotaged, sabotaged us and cheated and everything like that, it’s, it is a normal part of this sort of cycle. Well,

Simone Collins: I guess also, you know, you can chime in in the comments to let us know of. Comments, or sorry, episode topics that are not likely to get us banned that are still really interesting to you, because that would be helpful given apparently that, you know, YouTube’s algorithm is now determined by what Gemini thinks is Okay.

And Gemini is most AI is, is is subject to. Various forms of bias that will prevent us from talking about a lot of the things that have been really popular on our channel recently. Mm-hmm. Please, and thank you. I love you Malcolm.

Malcolm Collins: Love [00:39:00] you. Excited for the, the dinner tonight. You know, go heavy with the the, the greens.

Right. We will do. And, oh. When you cut the the, the, the peppers,

Simone Collins: I told you they’ll be cut to your legging. I’m splitting them down the center first and then I’m going to chop them along.

Malcolm Collins: You don’t need to chop them finely after you cut them down the center.

Simone Collins: You just want big strips. Do you confuse me with peppers?

You always want something different putting the whole pepper, but with the top chopped off? No, I want it in circles. No, I want it maybe not

Malcolm Collins: make strips. Maybe one cut down the middle or two cuts down the middle to make them sort of smaller strips.

Simone Collins: Okay, so you sort of want chop stickable smaller than the pieces of Turkey that I’m chopping up about the size of the pieces of Turkey when they’re cooked down.

Okay, so they’re gonna ultimately be larger. But longer and like spears instead of the circles that you’ve been getting.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And, and, and cut down the center. So it cooking, it’s like

Simone Collins: overall the same surface area, but a different shape.

Malcolm Collins: Yes, but yes, but cut down the center of the [00:40:00] inside and the outside is cooking equally.

Okay?

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm. Okay. I,

Malcolm Collins: I, I understand that.

Simone Collins: No, no, not at all.

Malcolm Collins: You’re the hero of this family. Our dog like pooed and peed and barfed everywhere. And you handled it. Oh, it’s, it’s 3 53, so

Simone Collins: I need to go.

Malcolm Collins: Bye. I love you.

Simone Collins: Oh, professor, professor. Sweating for to load. Oh. So my dad can’t unfortunately find old tapes from Japanese TV that he recorded in the eighties, but he did find one that he filmed when my half brother and sister were visiting them in Japan. And at the end of it, there’s some footage of them talking about like baby stuff that they bought and the names that they thought they’d selected.

So they had thought at that time when they were like, maybe halfway through the pregnancy that they would name me if I was a girl. ‘cause they couldn’t [00:41:00] tell because ultrasounds were really rudimentary then that my name would be, do you wanna guess my girl name? Lily Close. Lauren Rose. Lauren Rose was gonna be my name.

And then if I was a boy and they were pretty sure I was gonna be a boy. My name was gonna be Nicholas or Samuel or Bryn. I would take Bryn. Bryn is kind cute. It’s, it’s a Welsh shame. They had like a Welsh friend in Japan named B Brinley. And they’re like, yeah, Bryn, that’s a, that’s a good name. I love it.

Malcolm Collins: I could have been a

Simone Collins: Lauren. I like Bryn Brin is good. I think

Malcolm Collins: the name Simone fits you

Simone Collins: well. Si one what? What an separate name for someone in the AI age. I feel like it just, it, it signals our allegiance.

Malcolm Collins: R Fab ai and I call them like sim two, SIM three when I, I, I love that. That’s what we’ll rule the world that AI bought of Simone.

You know, trained on [00:42:00] her. Right. You know, I, I would trust Simone as a em impressive reality.

Simone Collins: Oh, loves, loves babies. Doesn’t understand humans. Sounds good.

Malcolm Collins: Yep. All right.

Speaker: Hey, wait guys. Come here. Come here. What? Hey, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop for two seconds. I got a question. So we gotta do a debate and the guy wants to know about bops. So what I wanna know is, what do you think of bops bop bops? You know, Bob’s, bobs stay, you know, like when daddy says he is gonna bop you, um, do you want Octavian to never be buffed again, ever?

No. No, you don’t want that, right? Do you think Octavian would get bad if he never got bops? Should we bop octavian now? No. No, no. So I got a question for you guys. I got a question. I got a question. Should daddy bop Krampus? No. [00:43:00] No. You don’t want me to bop Krampus? No. Yeah, because Krampus that be bad. Oh, so Krampus is doing good things.

And we should only, yeah. If Krampus only takes bad boys, then he is doing good things. Yeah. So I guess we shouldn’t bob him, right? No, he friendly. He’s friendly. He’s friendly. Krampus is friendly. How do you know Krampus is friendly? Because takes, because he takes grownups and kids that are bad. Oh, so he’s a good, he’s a good thing.

Speaker 2: Krampus is good. Yeah. Yeah. ‘cause he, he, he weeds out evil. Yeah. So, Santa’s bad ‘cause he indulges spoiled brats, right? Oh, I should bop Santa. No. No

Speaker: Torsten. Should I bop Santa? No, [00:44:00] because Santa gets us pleasant. Oh, so Santa’s really nice. Does anyone need BS right now? Hey, Indy. Titan took that from India. Does she need Bob? No.

Speaker 2: Oh, that’s.

Nice. You did a good job. Torsten.

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