Never again, ask for salary history when you're hiring someone because that brings along all their baggage of, you know, particularly for women and minorities that they were underpaid at the beginning because of X, Y, Z factor. And then they have to carry that on through the rest of their career, which can result in gaps of significant amounts of money. So that's the easy thing that I lead off with people. You could change this in the next five minutes. Just take it off of your form, take it off of your questions that you ask. Another thing you can do is always list your salary range. So that way people don't need to have insider information to know what the salary is because insider information is a lot of times a homogenous network type of information um that people are getting and so that just if the transparency is the biggest way to fight the salary gap another thing that we talk about is the confidence gap and how that plays out in the workplace. So there are folks who are underrepresented in your workforce are less likely to raise issues and feel that they'll be perceived as troublemakers if they say something that's hard for them in the workplace or something that's a challenge. So that goes back to that piece about proactively soliciting input and letting people know, please come to me if there's something we, we might not be able to fix it. But if we, if I know it's happening, then we have at least a chance. And if you will not be perceived as a troublemaker, this is something that's valuable, because we want you to be here for the long term. And we want you to be feeling good here in our workplace.

Totally. Why should businesses care about equity? Like, I mean, if I'm just sitting here listening and I'm like, okay, well, it's a business. It's not the kingdom. It's not the church. They should care. But if I'm just in to maximize shareholder profits, why are DEI initiatives even a thing? Why should I worry about that? And again, I know you've heard these objections, so I'm just teeing up because I'm curious about how you respond to that. Yeah.

Biblically, one of the things we see is that there are limits on profit maximization when it comes to the well-being of your neighbors. So we would see this in things like Sabbath. You're not running your farm seven days a week. You're stopping because that allows the well-being of your workers. You see this in the gleaning. You're not selling every single piece of grain because you're leaving some for the well-being of people who need something to eat. There's several other things where you limit profit maximization for the good of your neighbor.

So

when it comes to the workplace, we've all been in situations where things weren't fair in our workplace. And that feels horrible.

Yeah.

You know, someone's getting rewarded for something they didn't do, or someone's being accused of something that they didn't do and punished unfairly. That's a horrible situation. If we as managers or business owners have a chance to make that right, in the end, it actually ends up being beneficial for our bottom line because it's higher retention. It's, you know, higher, like you have better attraction to high quality folks. They know that this is a good place to work. And so they will come where if they know that it's not a good place to work, you won't be attracting the best employees and the highest quality talent. So this is one of the things where you're actually are maximizing your profit by implementing these equitable practices. Well,

that's it. I mean, I've heard Mark Cuban make a very similar argument publicly that if there's a chance of overlooking people who would not normally get a look, DEI isn't about – it's about making sure that you're not hiring folks that are less qualified just simply because they're white people. And that flips the whole thing upside down, right? It's not applicable at all right now. Oh, not at all. Um, all right, Sarah, I'm going to let you go back to your beautiful children. Is Justice Driver the place where everyone can engage with some of your work? Is that justicedriver.com?

Justicedriver.com. Boom. Yes.

I love that so much. Thank

you so much. Sarah. This is such a blast.