Exploring the Limitations of the Turing Test and the Possibility of AI Consciousness

It’s one thing to talk about the science and physics behind the notion of invisibility, it’s another thing to examine the cultural place that idea occupies in media and philosophy. 

Science writer Philip Ball wants to do both, and not just with things unseen. He’s written numerous books spanning a multitude of topics like the invention of color, how music works in the brain, and scientific rules of society. His latest book is The Book of Minds: How to Understand Ourselves and Other Beings, from Animals to AI to Aliens. 

Philip and Greg discuss the perks and pitfalls of interdisciplinary work, whether curiosity is a virtue or a vice, and different perspectives on the mind and consciousness. 

*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*

Episode Quotes:

Embodiment is a crucial aspect of the mind

45:15: You can't expect a mind that is just computing in some abstract space to develop the kinds of resources and capabilities that the human mind has. The human mind is part of us as an evolved being. And the mind didn't evolve by itself. It involved in the body, for the body as part of the body. In fact, it's an organ. The brain is an organ. And so, we understand the world as embodied beings. And partly what I mean by that is that we have a sense of things that we can do and things that we can't do that are predicated on the kinds of bodies we have.

Having a computer isn't enough to understand the nature of human minds

47:07: The idea of the brain as a computer, sitting in a room somewhere doing computation, is not enough to understand the nature of our minds, let alone others.

The importance of fluency in scientific Research

33:18: That fluency, that ability to put on different lenses and to remain open to different ways of thinking about a problem, is not just a great thing to have in life in general, but it's a really valuable thing to be able to do in scientific research.

Bridging Physics and Social Science through Critical Mass

18:26: Critical Mass was a book that was looking at how ideas that were developed in physics, condensed metaphysics, in statistical physics for understanding things like gasses and liquids and how they switch between the two forms, the things called phase transitions, how those ideas are now proving useful for social scientists because we can find some situations where people en masse, taken in large enough body and large enough numbers, show the same kinds of behaviors

Show Links:

Recommended Resources:

• Ring of Gyges
• The Invisible Man by H.G. Wells 
• Thomas Hobbes 
• Richard Feynman clip
• Dan Wagner 
• Christof Koch
• Murray Shanahan 
• The Idea of the Brain: The Past and Future of Neuroscience by Matthew Cobb
• Episode 283: Matthew Cobb

Guest Profile:

• Philip Ball's Website

His Work:

• The Book of Minds: How to Understand Ourselves and Other Beings, from Animals to AI to Aliens
• Shapes: Nature's Patterns: A Tapestry in Three Parts
• Invisible: The Dangerous Allure of the Unseen
• The Music Instinct: How Music Works and Why We Can't Do Without It
• Curiosity: How Science Became Interested in Everything
• Bright Earth: Art and the Invention of Color
• Critical Mass: How One Thing Leads to Another
• Beyond Weird: Why Everything You Thought You Knew about Quantum Physics Is Different
• The Water Kingdom: A Secret History of China
• How Life Works: A User’s Guide to the New Biology

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