What happens when the church trades the way of Jesus for the way of empire? In this episode of Shifting Culture, I talk with theologian and activist Drew Hart about his latest book, Making It Plain. We trace the long history of Christendom, the Doctrine of Discovery, and the legacies of white supremacy that continue to shape American Christianity today. But this isn’t just a conversation about what went wrong. Drew offers a hopeful vision he calls Anablactivism - a merging of Anabaptist discipleship and the prophetic witness of the Black church. Together we explore how these traditions, born on the underside of oppression, can help us recover a faith that looks like Jesus: rooted in solidarity, committed to justice, and pursuing God’s Shalom in our neighborhoods and the world. If you’ve wrestled with Christian nationalism, wondered how to disentangle faith from power, or longed for a discipleship that takes Jesus seriously, this conversation will both challenge and inspire you.

Rev. Dr. Drew G. I. Hart is an associate professor of theology at Messiah University where he has directed the Thriving Together: Congregations for Racial Justice program in central PA since 2021. He co-hosts Inverse Podcast with Australian peace activist Jarrod McKenna and is the author of Trouble I've Seen: Changing the Way the Church Views Racism (2016), Who Will Be A Witness?: Igniting Activism for God's Justice, Love, and Deliverance (2020), and he co-edited and contributed to Reparations and the Theological Disciplines: Prophetic Voices for Remembrance, Reckoning, and Repair (Nov. 2023). His newest book is Making It Plain: Why We Need Anabaptism and the Black Church (September 2, 2025). Drew regularly speaks at colleges, conferences, churches, and community groups across the country. He is married to Renee and is the father of three sons.

Drew's Book:

Drew's Recommendations:

God's Apocalyptic Insurrection

The Lamb of the Free

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