I don't really know what my plan was. At the end of college, I was working as an actor and doing a lot of theater in New York. And then some weird thing happened where I just was like, nevermind, I don't want to do it. So anyway, I just decided that wasn't going to do it anymore. Then I got a job, but my job to pay the rent was I was working in a youth nonprofit. That was the work that I ended up doing for like 15 years in various forms.

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