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The office to resi conversion is one of the great pipe dreams of the pandemic. Few projects have moved forward for a handful of reasons. You can't just demolish the entire thing and rebuild the residential tower. Just because a building seems empty doesn't mean it's not at least out.

Industry experts agree: Converting unused office towers to residential buildings is great in theory, but a moonshot to pull off. Despite the grab bag of obstacles that make these projects so difficult, the developer and office landlord Hines is getting in on the action. The Real Deal breaks down how Hines' Salt Lake City project pencils out and what it signals about the right building for the job.

Guests: Steven Paynter, studio director at Gensler's Toronto office; Dusty Harris, senior managing director of Hines' Utah and Oregon investment activity.