In many places, yeah, right, and more and more so in the modern world. But you know, the modern world is giving up on a lot of Christian things. And you want to say, you know what, if you're going to give up on Christian things, maybe this isn't the one to give up on, the one where we care for the weak and the vulnerable, like pick something else that Christians do. Like don't like candles anymore or something, but keep this one.

Yeah, there's so, I mean, there's a lot going on there. But I would just say like in these conversations, try to touch on those points of commonality that depending again on who you're talking to, a lot of the people you're speaking to are going to have an ethos that is formed by taking care of the weak by those who can't take care of themselves. And rather than just viewing them as just like, you know, this person's by enemy, I guess, just screw them across the board, because they're wrong and abortion, you can often find points of common ground. So just in terms of advice, like when you're having these conversations, I would really say as much as you can, let the prochoicer do the arguing. And what I mean by that is, oh, yes. Yeah. You

know what I mean? Yeah. A

lot of prochoicers will say things like, well, I'm fine with abortion under these cases, but not under these ones. Or I think abortion should be legal, but I never have one myself. And the first impulse that most of us have is to say, Hey, here's why you're wrong. And then it should be legal to kill children under these particular conditions. Understandable impulse, I would say, hold that thought. Instead, start the opposite direction. They're expecting that conversation, right? Do the opposite thing. It's like Jiu Jitsu, like you use their their weight against them. So I was, I was speaking to this young woman on a college campus, I was doing a little bit of evangelization. She said she had grown up Catholic, but had fallen away from the faith. She was now prochoic in certain circumstances. She says, obviously, I don't think abortion is okay all the time, but I think it should be okay in cases of rape and incest. And I said, Oh, why aren't you okay with abortion all the time? And she, it took her a second to realize what the question was, because she was so ready for me to say, why are you okay with abortion in these particular cases? Right. Right. But when I instead asked her why she wasn't okay with abortion in the other cases, it kind of stopped her in her tracks. And she had to do the actual work. I didn't do it for her. I let her do it. And there's a reason for that, right? Ben Franklin says a person or a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. Like if I just give you a bunch of reasons why I'm right, you're going to be like, okay, I didn't ask for that. And then you're going to ignore those reasons and you're going to continue to believe what you believe before. But if I ask you, well, why do you believe this? And you give me the answers, there's no chance you're going to be like, I disagree with that because you just, yeah, yeah, that's you doing the test. Yeah, I'm just saying, oh, that's a good point. You know, so let the pro-choicer say, here's why I'm against some abortions. Here's why I wouldn't personally have an abortion. Here's why I'm against most abortion. Whatever that common ground is, let them do that work.

And

you highlight

it and say, yeah, you're right. I think it's good that you think this is a serious issue that might involve the death of a human child if they're that honest with it. Because if abortion really is nothing more than the removal of themselves, who cares? Why doesn't matter that you wouldn't personally do it? Why does it matter? You know, just do it all the time. Do it everywhere. Do it, you know, like have them at Walmart. But if abortion is something more grave than that, and even most pro-choicers, when pressed, kind of admit that it is, well, why is it more grave? And if you can get them to give even a glimmer of the fact that maybe there's a human being involved here besides some other,

that's really good.

Otherwise, like if they won't go there, so that's the first day, you know, if you can find common ground, go for it. Great. If they take the total opposite to you and just say, no, there's not a person there until birth, maybe just drill down on the science. Like, so you're telling me part of your body becomes a different human being at birth. Like up to that part, you just have like eight limbs and like double the number of organs as everybody else. Maybe you've got like female genes on the outside, male genes on the inside, then the male genes just split off and become a different person, like a tree and an acorn kind of situation, like what is what's sad. And if that's the case, like in what sense does fatherhood exist? Like if one part of you just drops off and becomes like another person in birth, then do fathers exist? Like this is a weirdly asexual reproduction kind of understanding that humans come to be. And I call that out because it's just scientifically a joke. And like point out that it doesn't make any sense. It doesn't work and really deal with that. It's worth noting that when there was a debate about this in the Middle Ages, it's because they had no idea how sexual reproduction worked. And now that we know, then the idea that it's starting at any point other than conception doesn't make any sense. Because once you understand how reproduction works, it's clear when there's a genetically distinct human organism. And that point is conception.