Have you

ever stayed in a hotel so often that you know where you are based on the decor? Cannot

say that I've done that. No,

that's when you know it's time to change when you wake up in the middle of the night and you're not sure where you are. But when you look at the decor, I said, Hmm, I'm in San Diego because I recognize that couch over there. That's when I knew, Hey, something's going on here. I'm spending all this time on the road. I'm not sleeping at home. I'm doing time zones. I'm doing

airport food, hotel food, airline food, quality of life wasn't

where I felt it should be. And so doing all that schlepping all over the country, even though flying airplanes was my dream job, it was a tremendous amount of fun. I had a great time doing it. But that wasn't how I wanted to live. I didn't want to live out of a suitcase. And I recognize that for me, this isn't the destination. I wasn't going to wake up on my deathbed and think about, man, think about all the tens of thousands of people I safely got to destination. I'm pretty sure there wasn't going to be a ticker tape parade for me. And so I had that moment. I realized, you know, what do I actually want? Why am I doing the things I'm doing? Why would I want something better? Well, I wanted to look back and know that I'd actually contributed. And the way that I could do that was not necessarily from the cockpit. And so that's where the idea of I've got to have another system so that I can start to spend my time in the places I want with the people I want and doing things that I want. And so that was my why. That's what drove me.

And was it clear immediately that passive income was the answer to that? Or was it just like this realization, I don't want this anymore and I've got to find an alternative. When did passive income become like that driver? Well, it

sounded amazing. I mean, pilots are some of the laziest people I know. And that's exactly why I became one. I mean, really, I only have to work a handful of minutes out of a flight. This is amazing. Passive income, it sounds like I don't have to do a tremendous amount of work. And so figuring out, hey, there's got to be a way for me to work or have things be working for me, even if I want to be at the beach, even if I want to be spending time taking vacations or snowboarding or trying to find a bear that I can wrangle with my bare hands and survive. So that was what drove me down that road.

I love that. All right. So Jamie, what about for you? Like, do you remember what it was that kind of triggered this idea of one, I need passive income and I walk financial freedom. Like, what was it for

you? Yeah. So I remember it clears day. So my wife and I had been trying to have children for a while. And by the way, I was in the medical device space 14 years prior to being on this side. So how they had a stable career saw like the track up the corporate ladder, if you will. But we finally got the good news that we were pregnant. And we go in for the ultrasound. And there are twins in there. And so like that changed everything for me. And just something, some switch flipped in my head that like I needed to do something bigger than just my career, right? We knew made a decision. My wife is going to be staying home with the girls going from a double income to single income. Some of it was about like, okay, how do I just start to replace her income or try and build some second, you know, a second stream of income kind of marks point, like not just relying on one source of income. But quickly through kind of my self education process, this idea of financial freedom just kept coming around. I was like, man, one of my goals as a father or potential to be soon to be father was I wanted to be very present with my children. And what I realized very quickly was in my in my W two job, my medical device sales job, I was covering four states, right? I was going to be traveling every other week, every third week, I was going to be spending a lot of time away from them. I didn't want that, right? I wanted to be able to spend time with my family, with my young girls to be a part of their life whenever young. And so that really was was the catalyst that just drove me full steam ahead, start, start down the real estate path, you know, starting to look at building a real estate portfolio quickly realized that could be capital intensive. So got into flipping houses, we'll get more details of exactly how I did it. But the why really was being present for my family and having options, right? If I if I wanted to walk away from a job that was taking me away from my family, more than I wanted to, I wanted those options.

So I love this. So Mark is sharing more around the idea of just kind of an overall kind of like regret of like in the future, looking back, well, I regret not having this time. And that was kind of the kicker for you. It was a life of it, right? That, and how am I going to provide for these, these babies so quickly? And it wasn't expecting there to be two. Wife needs to stay home. Like there's a lot happening at one time. Was it clear at that point for you, Jamie, that it was the passive income side or was it just I just need more income period? Like which one was it for you immediately? And then when do you remember if there was a switch?

I think the panic side, like the initial panic was I just have to I have to bring in more income. Like I don't know what this is going to look like financially, but quickly through again, like I just dove in head first, it started kind of like a lot of real estate investors, red wrist at poor dad found bigger pockets. We'll get into all those details. But quickly, that mindset changed to there's more than just bringing in more income. What if I could actually build this passive income that I don't really have to worry about bringing in more income, right? I am bringing in more income, but I'm doing it with less work, right? Frying up that time that I wanted to be available for the family. So it was a very quick switch. I'd be lying if I said the initial like panic was like, I just need to get more income in this household, but it quickly turned to how do I how do I bring in more income, but also make it more passive and long term wealth generation? I

love that. So for me, I'll just quickly share that I'm a slow learner. And you know, to be honest, I didn't have a lot of exposure to people with means growing up. I didn't have a financial education, except for what I had been told to do, right? Go to go to school, get a good job, and get paid every month, put money in 401k, whatever the case may be, right? And I started to realize though, like investing in things that I don't understand just doesn't feel right. And maybe you're with me right now, like you're driving in the car or you're on the treadmill right now and you're like, yeah, I know there's something not quite right about what I'm where I'm putting money, but everyone around me seems to be okay with it. And so maybe something's wrong with me, but I just didn't feel like I was in control of anything. And for the longest time, I was okay with that because I honestly believed that I wasn't supposed to, right? That I was just to give my money to someone else who was a better steward of that money or a better like investor of that money. And what I quickly learned through events like 2008, and even before that, there was losses in my IRA losses in my 401k. There was gains in those things. And I didn't understand either side of it, right? Whether it was going up or going down. And it wasn't until I started to look into starting to save for my daughter's college. And I was like, okay, what can I save for their college? And it was a market based 529. And it was kind of like at that moment, I was like, wait a minute, I don't understand how it's affecting my 401k. But that's a really long term thing. But you know, same for college, it's like real savings. I need to make sure are there for this purpose of this college education. And it could actually lose value. I don't, I'm just not okay with that. And literally at that moment, I get introduced to infinite banking. And again, I didn't understand investing at all. I didn't understand passive income. But I knew infinite banking was the first step for me, because at least I was going to be gaining more than in my savings account, but not giving up losses to the market. And I could start saving for their college. And then my brain started expanding to other things. After that, once you start to put capital in a place that you only control, it starts to accumulate. And you start to say, wait a minute, if I don't use this for some other investment, I'm really missing out, because I get a two for one deal here. I don't know about you guys. I'm one of those like bogo guys like, Hey, I see a bug. I'm buy two of whatever it is, even though I don't only need one. You have to you have, I mean, come on. But you're sitting there, your policy, your system is growing, whether you use it or not. So I might as well use it to do something great. And man, that's when the light bulb started going off and saying, wait a minute, there's a lot of cool things I could be doing today to create cash flow. And what about my top? How can I get more of that back? So the wide for me, I'm just slower than you got. So you got to, you know, bear with me here. Now everybody wants to know what you get that mindset right. How did you then take the first step into passive income? And maybe just some of the, some of the details behind that is we want to share some ways that other people maybe can learn. J.D., why don't you start with you this

time? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the, the how really started with education, self education, right? I went down the do it yourself road. I thought I was smart enough to go read books, find bigger pockets, go down the thousands of podcasts. I was just consuming education, just consuming content, consuming content. And what I quickly learned, at least about myself, was that was extremely overwhelming to me, right? I didn't quite know which route to go. And I doubted myself on, Hey, what if I do make a bad decision? And, and I lose some of this capital that I've stored up to go make these investments. So it really wasn't until I connected myself with mentors and coaches and kind of networked with people who were already doing what I wanted to be doing, that I really actually started taking max, like massive action and seeking results. And so my first steps into really passive income was again, my personality, I'm an ID, I tend to like shiny objects and I want to go really fast. And I just had capital burning a whole lot of pocket actually went down to the courthouse and bought some tax lanes here in Birmingham. Not something that I've continued to do, but that was my very first entry, fairly low level of entry. They offered decent returns at that point in time, you could get 12% analyzed on your money if they came back or redeemed on the taxes. And so put some money to work there. But quickly after that got connected with a mentor and the real estate space and started looking for rental properties. So went down went down that road, bought a few rental properties and quickly learned that rental properties can be capital intensive. So then Shiny object syndrome kicked in again. And I was like, Hey, let me go flip some houses to build more capital to buy more rental properties. And that was kind of the first entry level of how I got started. Since then, and again, just through networking and connections with groups like wealth without Wall Street, got into private lending have done some of that I joined actually I'm a member of a real estate focused mastermind, have been able to get into some small partnerships and small apartment partnerships with members of that group. And so just continue to expand in the real estate space, private lending, I still connect that to real estate. And then I've looked at a few syndications for kind of more really, really, really passive stuff. But really my how was getting around people understood and were further along than I was in that journey for me that avoiding pitfalls and the affirmation that how I was thinking through a deal or looking at an opportunity made sense. And if I was missing something, somebody could bring that to my attention. I credit 100% those mentors and coaches and mastermind groups. So as a part of for my success and getting to where I am today without that, I'm sure I wouldn't fall on my face flat multiple times because I would just miss something. So no,

is there any one thing out of all the things you've done that you feel like, and this was this was the best idea that I've done and I want to do more of it, or is there is it all kind of been just stacking on top of itself in your mind?

I feel like it really just all stacks. I really love the real estate world. Real estate, there's so many options just within real estate and to get creative and to expand or to contract or to find a different strategy. And what I mean by that is I'm building, I'm still going to continue to build single family rental portfolios. I really love the new kind of partnerships I'm in with four or five people for small apartment complexes. Just the ability to scale at a faster rate, the ability to drive equity and to drive value in those small apartment complexes. I'll continue to always do real estate. One area that I'm always going to keep in my bucket as well is private lending connected to or collateralized with real estate. I love that space. I just feel like that's a really solid way to help flippers, help other people, improve communities, help the home buyer or the new renter, and also make a great return with my money being fairly secure to a property. Now there's some nuances and details you need to be aware of if you're going to go into that space. But I will always be in the real estate space. I'll do some things outside of real estate, but real estate is probably going to continue to be my

core focus. Love it. Mark, how about for you? What's been the how on how you built your passive income?

To echo Jamie's plan, it really does start with education. I saw a really cool reel today and it was this Florida basketball coach and he was talking about how 95% of your time as a basketball player is conducted without a basketball running down the court, transition, defensive screens, offensive screens, setting up pick and post, all this stuff. He said, but nobody wants to focus on the 95%. They only want to focus on the 5% of the time that they spend with the ball. So he said, if you're spending your time focused on that 5%, you're missing out on the vast majority of what you need to actually be successful or to

be a part of a successful team.

So for me, it really did come down to education. And education is like Jamie said, it's the not so sexy part about investing. Oh great, I'm going to go read some books. Oh, it sounds amazing. I'm going to sit around and listen to books on Audible. I'm going to go watch webinars. I'm going to do spreadsheets. I'm going to create spreadsheets. I mean, it just sounds amazing, like super awesome. That's always the number one lead for every single get rich quick screen I've ever seen, which is you're going to spend 95% of your time just doing boring work said nobody ever. So if you're willing to put in that time, how by putting in that time, I got down into the weeds, I got nitty gritty. And really that education reminded me, I need to get away from people who say you can't and get around people who say, how can how can you do that? How can you accomplish that? Because it was being around those people that reminded me, you know, I grew up in Hawaii. It's a small little rock in the middle of the Pacific. It is quite possibly one of the most remote locations for air travel. There is, but I was only looking in my backyard, because that was all I knew that was all I was comfortable about. I was trying to find ways to build real estate in the state of Hawaii, which is incredibly expensive. But one friend led to another friend who said, have you thought about looking outside of the state of Hawaii? And that mental shift, not of a yeah, you can't do this, but hey, have you thought about how you can look at this thing, how you can do this. So education exposure, knowing what else is out there, and then really opportunity, Joey, to your point about infinite banking, when you understand how money moves, when you understand how money flows, and you put yourself in a position to have that money work in your favor, you're now in a position of cash. I'll give you a great anecdote. I learned the true cost of cash. So I was talking to my neighbor. He likes real estate. He was buying a property. And he said, Hey, I got my down payment, but the appraisal came in short. I said, all right. So what does that mean for you? He goes, that means I got to come up with like another 10 or 20 grand to make the down payment so I can get the equity ratios right. Like, okay, does it still pencil out?

Yeah.