Sometimes you'll hear conservatives say things like Marxism-Leninism was the fruit of the Enlightenment. And my reaction is always like, that's the exact opposite.

It's true. Yeah, it's true. There's a lot of confusion about Marxism. Actually, when I came to United States, I was ashamed. I visited both friends and I spent a lot of time in the United States. And I was amazed how intellectual, my colleagues, students, and later faculty, how much they misunderstood the nature of companies. They knew a lot about fascists. So, fascists were condemned from the beginning, but there was nothing even remotely similar concerning masses. There was absolutely no understanding of what it did and how it functioned and how terribly it was.

I would say the thing that most American academics would also know very little really about fascists. I mean, for example, just to know Mussolini's origin story, to know that he was the head of the Italian Socialist Party before he became the head of the fact party. Yeah. Right. He was the editor of the People of Italy. We have his daily editorials from when he was a Marxist Leninist and when Lenin said he was a great guy. I mean, that's the kind of thing that hardly anyone knows about, really.

Yeah, I guess you're right. I mean, I meant to say, I'm sorry, I think I meant to say more in the sense that whatever they knew, they were ready to condemn it, right? They condemn it totally and completely and unconditionally. Well, that was not true about

companies.