Relationship and treatment both matter

Is Cognitive Behavioral Therapy REALLY superior to Humanistic or Psychodynamic approaches? According to the scientific evidence, what factors ACTUALLY drive the change process, and what skills can therapists strengthen to get better outcomes?

In this episode of The Making Therapy Better Podcast, our host Dr. Bruce Wampold takes the guest seat in a lively conversation with a group of young Brazilian psychologists who are at the heart of a contentious debate gaining national attention in Brazil: Geissy Araújo, Ph.D., Maurício Majolo, M.S., Lucas Cardoso, and Mateus Souza, M.S.

Together, they discuss:

- The common arguments that certain theoretical orientations are superior to others

- Whether these claims are supported by the scientific evidence

- What the data actually reveal about the change process in psychotherapy

- The balance between theory, evidence, and human connection

- The path toward a more productive conversation about improving psychotherapy training and outcomes in Brazil and around the world

Bruce reminds us that therapy is not merely a set of techniques — it’s a social and relational healing practice rooted in empathy, collaboration, and meaning.

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Be sure to also check out our related episode where Bruce and Scott Miller discuss some of these topics in greater detail:

#21: "What Makes Therapy Work?" - Scott Miller, PhD interviews Bruce Wampold, PhD (S3, E1): https://youtu.be/A0stmKy3Jnc?si=akkCENIxGBlL3Lkk

🔔 Don’t forget to like, comment, subscribe, and share — your support helps us keep these conversations going.

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Bruce Wampold, Ph.D. | Emeritus Professor, University of Wisconsin–Madison; Author of "The Great Psychotherapy Debate: The Evidence for What Makes Psychotherapy Work" -- and among the most influential psychotherapy researchers alive today.

Produced and edited by Geissy Araújo, Ph.D. and Kevin Riordan.

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The Making Therapy Better podcast is brought to you by CarePaths EHR, an electronic health record system designed to help you improve therapy outcomes.https://www.carepaths.com

Follow the Making Therapy Better project:

🌐 Website: www.makingtherapybetter.com

📺 YouTube: /@makingtherapybetter

📸 Instagram: /making_therapy_better

💼 LinkedIn: /9223245

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00:00 Introduction to the Episode and Guest

03:25 Bruce's Journey into Psychotherapy

08:24 The Role of Personal Experience in Therapy

13:04 Common Factors in Psychotherapy

19:25 The Importance of Therapist-Patient Relationship

27:19 Cultural and Contextual Considerations in Therapy

36:08 Impact of Culturally Adapted Therapy

38:11 Debates on Empirically Supported Treatments

39:47 The Evolution of Evidence-Based Practice

42:10 The Essence of Psychotherapy

44:10 Future of Therapist Training

47:26 Science Communication in Psychotherapy

49:25 Measurement-Based Care and Therapist Improvement

01:00:22 Advice for New Therapists

01:03:08 The Role of AI and Technology in Therapy

01:04:59 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

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#Psychotherapy #TherapySkills #Counseling #HumanisticTherapy #EmotionFocusedTherapy #PluralisticTherapy #cognitivebehavioraltherapy #TherapistTraining #ClinicalSupervision #BruceWampold #MakingTherapyBetter #MentalHealth

Intro/outro music by Chris Haugen, free for public use.