"I think there's something interesting to that is like the more you build the story, the more the low points actually mean," he says. "And I'll actually give you something you probably didn't expect from realness: It's a smiley face." He also talks about how people root for him on his way up because they remind them of their dreams and then tear him down once he gets there. 'It's kind of like the crab story, like all the crabs trying to pull the other crabs back into the bucket'

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