Navigating Agile Scaling

BONUS: Beyond Frameworks, A Provocative Guide to Real Agility With Erwin Verweij

In this BONUS episode, we dive into the provocative world of Erwin Verweij's latest book: 'How the f*ck to be Agile?' Erwin shares his journey from frustration to clarity as he witnesses organizations adopting Agile frameworks without understanding their purpose. With candid stories from his coaching experiences, Erwin reveals what happens when teams wake up to real agility beyond dogmatic practices and how organizations can find their own path to meaningful change.

The Wake-Up Call for Agile Adoption

"What the f*ck dude! Do you even know what it means? Do you really know what it means?"

Erwin's journey to writing this book began with growing frustration at how companies approach agility. He frequently encountered teams proudly declaring "We're Agile!" or "Our department is Agile" without understanding what that truly meant. 

This disconnect between label and understanding became the catalyst for his provocatively-titled wake-up call. Erwin describes his exasperation with organizations adopting frameworks halfheartedly, following mindsets that were completely off track, and ultimately "doing stuff without knowing what they're doing and why they're doing it." The F-word in his book title serves dual purposes - expressing his frustration while also functioning as a power word to wake people up from their complacency.

Breaking Free from Framework Dogma

"We're not gonna do Agile. Forget it. And we're not gonna do Scrum, even though you're doing Scrum. Let's look at what really works for you people."

Rather than imposing rigid frameworks, Erwin advocates for teams to discover what actually works in their specific context. He shares a memorable story of tearing down Scrum posters that management had installed, shocking team members who couldn't believe he would challenge the prescribed approach. 

In another example, Erwin creatively used a manager's "quarantine" language by posting contamination warnings at a department's entrance with the message: "If you enter this room, you might get contaminated with a new way of working." These disruptive approaches are designed to shake people from blindly following orders and encourage them to think critically about their processes.

Finding Your Own Path to Agility

"Any coach who goes into a company with a strict plan and a set approach - don't hire them. They don't have a clue what to do."

After the wake-up call, Erwin focuses on helping teams discover their own effective ways of working. He believes that the key is to observe what's already working well, emphasize those elements, and discard what doesn't serve the team. This approach stands in stark contrast to consultants who arrive with predetermined solutions regardless of context. 

Erwin emphasizes that real transformation happens when teams take ownership of their processes, adapt them to their unique needs, and make them their own. He cautions against hiring coaches who come with rigid, predetermined plans, as they often lack the flexibility to address a team's specific challenges.

The Never-Ending Journey of Adaptation

"We need to help teams to stay open for the change that is coming."

Erwin stresses that agility is not a destination but a continuous journey of adaptation. The world never stops changing, so teams must remain flexible and open to evolving their approaches. He encourages a mindset of experimentation with phrases like "let's try" and "what could we try" to keep teams responsive to new challenges. 

According to Erwin, one of the most powerful ways to foster this adaptive culture is to model the behaviors you want to see in the teams you support. By demonstrating openness to change yourself, you help others embrace the continuous nature of improvement.

Scaling Without Bureaucracy

"Work with the system, learn what is needed, iterate."

When discussing scaling Agile across an organization, Erwin questions why companies feel the need to scale in the first place. He uses cities as a metaphor for how complex systems can organize beyond small groups without excessive bureaucracy. 

In one organization where he currently coaches, teams have found a pragmatic approach by adopting elements from various frameworks that work for them. They use quarterly planning sessions from SAFe primarily as a networking opportunity that connects everybody and focuses their efforts, even though the planning itself might be "basically bullshit." This practical, results-oriented approach emphasizes what works rather than dogmatic adherence to frameworks.

Software as a Creative Process

"Software development is basically figuring out how stuff works. It's a creative process that mostly is being dealt with within the brain of people."

Erwin views software development fundamentally as a creative process rather than a production line. He explains that it's not about "typing as fast as you can" but about thinking, problem-solving, and creating. This perspective helps explain why iterative approaches with small steps work better than trying to plan everything upfront. 

Erwin notes that when complex problems become routine, teams might not need the full framework structure, but they should retain the values that help them coordinate effectively. The essence of frameworks like Scrum, he suggests, is simply "start working, figure it out, and see what happens" - an approach that many organizations have become afraid to embrace.

Awakening Organizational Intelligence

"We raise children, which is basically programming another human being - it's really complex. And we just take it for granted. And then we go to work, and we don't know how to make decisions anymore."

One of Erwin's most powerful insights is how organizational structures can suppress the natural intelligence and decision-making abilities that people demonstrate in their personal lives. He points out the irony that we navigate incredibly complex systems like raising children or driving in traffic, yet when we arrive at work, we suddenly act as if we can't make decisions without higher approval. This disconnect creates frustration and wastes human potential. Erwin challenges organizations to wake up to this contradiction and create environments where people can bring their full capabilities to work, rather than checking their intelligence at the door.

In this section, we refer to Jurgen Appelo’s Book Management 3.0.

About Erwin Verweij

Erwin is a seasoned Agile Coach, Certified Enterprise Coach, and author of Viking Law and How the f*ck to be Agile?. With 15+ years' experience driving meaningful change, he helps organizations embrace real agility through coaching, transformation, and workshops—cutting through complexity to spark courage, clarity, and action.

You can link with Erwin Verweij on LinkedIn and connect with Erwin Verweij on Twitter.