Spot, perps, and basis trading synergies

Welcome to The Chopping Block — where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest in crypto. This episode features special guest Vladimir Novakovski, Founder of Lighter, joining the crew to unpack the fallout from October 10’s historic perpetuals liquidation event and the ADL research that sparked a public clash with Hyperliquid. The panel digs into how auto-deleveraging really works, why these failures were long hidden inside centralized exchanges, and what decentralized perps must fix to truly outperform TradFi.

The conversation then turns to the intensifying perp wars. With Lighter’s zero-fee trading model, premium tiers for pros, and a looming token launch, the hosts debate whether crypto is headed for a Robinhood-style fee reset, why TVL may matter more than volume, and how RWAs, FX perps, and cross-margining are reshaping market structure. Finally, they tackle the growing divide between tokens and equity as devcos get acquired and tokenholders are left behind.

Perps are evolving, incentives are breaking — let’s get into it.

Show Highlights

🔹 ADL research ignites a firestorm — Tarun’s paper on auto-deleveraging sparks a public clash with Hyperliquid and Paradigm, exposing how opaque ADL systems really are.

🔹 October 10 liquidation shock — Repeated ADLs during crypto’s largest liquidation day reveal structural fragility long hidden inside both CEXs and DEXs.

🔹 Fairness vs predictability in perps — Why traders care less about perfect algorithms and more about knowing when and how ADLs will hit.

🔹 Lighter’s design tradeoffs — Vladimir Novakovski explains Lighter’s less-aggressive ADL approach, insurance fund buffers, and trader-friendly risk parameters.

🔹 Zero-fee perps debate — Lighter’s free retail tier + paid pro tier raises the question: is crypto headed for a Robinhood-style fee reset?

🔹 TVL beats volume — The panel argues TVL is the most honest signal of trust in perp exchanges, especially during market stress.

🔹 RWAs and FX perps surprise — Euro and index perps outperform expectations, challenging assumptions about which real-world assets actually trade onchain.

🔹 Tokens vs equity explode — Devco acquihires (Axelar, Tensor) leave tokenholders behind, reigniting debates over incentive alignment and crypto M&A.

Hosts:

⭐️Haseeb Qureshi, Managing Partner at Dragonfly ⭐️Tarun Chitra, Managing Partner at Robot Ventures

Guest

⭐️Vladimir Novakovski, Founder & CEO. Lighter.

Links:

Tarun Chitra’s Autodeleveraging: $653 million lost to a greedy heuristic?

🔗 https://x.com/kenchangh/status/1994854381267947640 

⁠Disclosures⁠

Timestamps

00:00 Intro

01:38 Tarun’s ADL Paper Sparks Backlash

05:24 Research vs Bag Defense

06:27 How ADLs Actually Work

12:27 Fairness vs Predictability

24:14 Tarun’s Inspiration 

28:17 Zero-Fee Perps Explained

34:12 Perp Wars Heat Up

38:15 RWAs Trade Onchain

41:49 Token Launch Reality

47:19 Tokens vs Equity Clash

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