Echoes of Nagasaki: Memory and Warfare

Chuck Todd examines Trump's disastrous CNBC interview filled with demonstrable lies and errors, questioning whether the president is mentally declining or being fed bad information as he poisons government data and threatens economic stability by claiming false achievements like having the "highest vote total ever in Texas" when he actually ranked just 7th since World War II. He warns that Trump's calls for rigged elections in Texas to maintain power, combined with his corruption of federal statistics, represents a fundamental threat to democracy that even elected Republicans won't support—though the party remains largely silent as Trump advocates for systematic unfairness. The episode also covers emerging political developments including Arnold Schwarzenegger's vow to fight Gavin Newsom over redistricting, Democratic donor Steve Kloobeck launching TV ads in California focused on Trump's Epstein connections after Kamala Harris bows out, and the growing likelihood that Sherrod Brown will mount another Senate run in Ohio despite being positioned as Republicans' top 2028 target. He rounds out the discussion with updates on crowded Democratic primary fields in Iowa, potential presidential ambitions from Hawaii Governor Josh Green, Jerry Demings' Florida political future, and the economic reality of shrinkflation hitting grocery stores as Americans face continued price increases.

Then, nuclear weapons historian Greg Mitchell joins Chuck Todd to discuss his documentary "Atomic Bowl" and the largely forgotten story of a football game played in Nagasaki just four months after the atomic bombing, revealing how both American and Japanese governments worked to quickly turn the page on nuclear devastation. Mitchell explores why Nagasaki became the "forgotten city" compared to Hiroshima, despite the horrific targeting of civilian populations rather than military bases, and how the military-ordered football game featuring a Heisman Trophy winner was part of a broader effort to westernize Japan and normalize post-war relations. The conversation delves into the decades-long government cover-up of radiation health effects on American troops, the "downwinders" affected by nuclear testing, and how the true decision-making process behind the bombings remains buried by official narratives that claimed the bombs saved a million American lives.

The discussion takes on contemporary urgency as Mitchell warns that nuclear weapons are being made "more useable" while the horror of their effects fades from living memory, with AI now integrated into nuclear protocols and the Trump administration proposing nuclear reactors on the moon. Todd and Mitchell examine how Christopher Nolan's "Oppenheimer" brought renewed attention to nuclear issues, the ongoing radiation monitoring in Japanese cities, and whether there's a modern equivalent to muckraking journalists like Upton Sinclair who could expose nuclear truths today. The episode highlights the critical importance of remembering nuclear history as policymakers consider the role of nuclear power in clean energy transitions while the Pacific Theatre's lessons remain overshadowed by European World War II narratives, making the atomic bombings' anniversaries increasingly forgotten despite their lasting global implications.

Finally, he answers listeners’ questions in the “Ask Chuck” segment.

Timeline:

(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements)

00:00 Chuck Todd’s Introduction

02:00 Trump’s crazy interview with CNBC was full of errors and lies

03:15 Trump is either losing it or is being given bad information

04:30 Trump is poisoning government data

05:45 Corrupting data can destroy the economy

06:15 Trump claims highest vote total ever in Texas… not true

07:30 Trump had the 7th highest vote total in Texas just since WW2

08:45 Trump is calling for an unfair election in Texas to hold power

09:45 Illinois is the most gerrymandered Democratic state

10:45 Arnold Schwarzenegger vows to fight Newsom over redistricting

13:15 Advocating for unfairness is terrible for the democracy

14:45 Elected Republicans are not on board with manipulating BLS stats

16:00 Steve Kloobeck running TV ads in CA after Harris bows out

17:45 Kloobeck’s first ad is about Trump & Epstein

19:15 Looking likely Sherrod Brown will run for senate in Ohio

21:15 If Brown wins he’ll be the #1 target for Republicans in 28’

23:15 Democrats now have 4 senate candidates in Iowa

25:30 Democrats will have a hard time clearing the primary field

26:45 Hawaii governor Josh Green might run for president

28:00 Jerry Demings might run for governor or senate in Florida

30:00 Shrinkflation is showing up at grocery stores as prices rise

33:45 Greg Mitchell joins the Chuck ToddCast! 

35:30 How Greg ended up on the nuclear weapons beat 

37:00 Nagasaki is the "forgotten city" 

38:00 Oppenheimer brought nukes back into public consciousness 

39:15 The "atomic bowl" was played 4 months after Nagasaki bombing 

40:30 The story of the game was swept under the rug 

43:00 Why was Nagasaki bombed if Hiroshima "made the point"? 

44:45 Why were Hiroshima and Nagasaki chosen for bombing? 

46:00 Target wasn't military bases, it was the middle of the cities 

47:00 Truman put a stop to use of additional nukes 

48:30 Anniversary of Hiroshima and Nagasaki is largely forgotten 

50:00 U.S. troops sent in after bombing had health problems from radiation 

51:30 Government took decades to deal with health fallout for troops 

52:45 Oppenheimer brought attention to the "downwinders" of nuke tests 

54:00 Both U.S. & Japanese governments wanted to turn page on WW2 

56:00 The atomic bowl featured a Heisman trophy winner 

57:30 Why was the game played? 

58:45 Game was part of an effort to westernize Japan 

1:01:15 Game was ordered by military command, not Washington 

1:02:15 Participants didn't talk about playing in the game 

1:03:45 There's been no feedback on the film from the Pentagon 

1:05:15 Horror of nuclear weapons barely exists in living memory 

1:07:00 Is there a robust community of historians in Japan for this topic? 

1:08:15 Do the Japanese still monitor radiation fallout in these cities? 

1:10:15 Justification narrative was saving a million American lives 

1:11:30 The Pacific theatre receives far less attention than Europe 

1:13:00 Decision making process has been buried by the government 

1:14:00 Trump administration wants a nuclear reactor on the moon 

1:15:15 The role of nuclear power in clean energy transition 

1:16:30 AI is being used in our nuclear weapons protocols, but can't launch 

1:17:30 J. Robert Oppenheimer's conversation with Truman 

1:19:45 Thoughts on Nolan's portrayal of Oppenheimer? 

1:22:45 American public perception on use of the bomb 

1:23:45 Nukes are being made "more useable" 

1:25:00 The taboo around using nukes 

1:26:45 Is there someone in political culture today like Upton Sinclair? 

1:30:45 How to watch "Atomic Bowl"

1:31:45 Chuck's thoughts on interview with Greg Mitchell 

1:33:45 Ask Chuck 

1:34:00 What can Democrats do to reconnect with young men? 

1:40:00 How will high housing prices and inequality shape young voters? 

1:44:45 What is Dems 2032 path without turning Texas and Florida purple?